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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2272
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aurik wrote:
I've always done mawashi geri with either the shin or instep. Of course, I would never try to kick to the head in a self-defense situation -- it's too slow and you run the risk of losing your balance if the ground isn't flat and level. Frankly, I think there are far too many good targets much lower, such as the outer thigh and the floating ribs/kidneys.


I generally punch above my waist and kick below my waist. That doesnít mean I donít kick above my opponentís waist and donít punch below it.

And every rule has an exception. I unfortunately had to kick a guy in the chest a few times, but he was on the ground. Only time I ever kicked in a true SD situation.
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immaterial
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 12 Jan 2019
Posts: 27


PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
immaterial wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
Iím not a fan of it, but everythingís got its place.
y.


Why are you not a fan of it?


Good question. You really got me thinking why I donít like it, and the honest answer is because Iím not good at it. Itís one of those things that you donít like what youíre not good at, so you avoid training it because you donít like it.

My feet are very flat. My toes arenít flexible. So the ball of my foot doesnít stick out very far when I do that kick and front kick. I think because of the angle the roundhouse comes it at, it would be pretty hard to use the ball of the foot with shoes on. A front kick, at least my front kick, rises upwards on contact, so wearing shoes doesnít hinder it much. My roundhouse is hindered by shoes. Iíve hit a bag with both kick while wearing shoes many times; roundhouse with the ball of the foot isnít a good kick for me, but front kick with the ball of my foot is perfectly fine.

Even if it was a good kick for me, Iíd still prefer the lower 1/3 of the shin. Itís a lot bigger surface area and therefore I donít need to be as precise. Itís like swinging a bat vs a hammer IMO. Sure the hammer will have more pressure, but the bat wonít miss as easily.

As for breaking your foot by using your instep to the head vs shin or ball of the foot, I donít think thatís a real world concern. Iíve seen countless full power instep to the head kicks in competition, and I havenít seen a broken foot. Iíd be willing to bet less people break their foot off of someoneís head than break their hand off of someoneís head. I say that percentage-wise because obviously less people kick the head than punch it. It would be an interesting scientific study.


Do you really need to pull back your toes though in order for it to work? this guy doesn't...

http://shitokai.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Sensei-Tanzadeh-Performing-Mawashi-Geri.jpg
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2272
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

immaterial wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
immaterial wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
Iím not a fan of it, but everythingís got its place.
y.


Why are you not a fan of it?


Good question. You really got me thinking why I donít like it, and the honest answer is because Iím not good at it. Itís one of those things that you donít like what youíre not good at, so you avoid training it because you donít like it.

My feet are very flat. My toes arenít flexible. So the ball of my foot doesnít stick out very far when I do that kick and front kick. I think because of the angle the roundhouse comes it at, it would be pretty hard to use the ball of the foot with shoes on. A front kick, at least my front kick, rises upwards on contact, so wearing shoes doesnít hinder it much. My roundhouse is hindered by shoes. Iíve hit a bag with both kick while wearing shoes many times; roundhouse with the ball of the foot isnít a good kick for me, but front kick with the ball of my foot is perfectly fine.

Even if it was a good kick for me, Iíd still prefer the lower 1/3 of the shin. Itís a lot bigger surface area and therefore I donít need to be as precise. Itís like swinging a bat vs a hammer IMO. Sure the hammer will have more pressure, but the bat wonít miss as easily.

As for breaking your foot by using your instep to the head vs shin or ball of the foot, I donít think thatís a real world concern. Iíve seen countless full power instep to the head kicks in competition, and I havenít seen a broken foot. Iíd be willing to bet less people break their foot off of someoneís head than break their hand off of someoneís head. I say that percentage-wise because obviously less people kick the head than punch it. It would be an interesting scientific study.


Do you really need to pull back your toes though in order for it to work? this guy doesn't...

http://shitokai.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Sensei-Tanzadeh-Performing-Mawashi-Geri.jpg

Iíll try it tomorrow morning in class and report back. Hopefully Iím not reporting that I broke or dislocated a few toes in the process
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14182
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why?? Why not??

To train in IT is better than not ever training in IT; the summation of 'why' is to the summation of 'because'!!



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immaterial
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 12 Jan 2019
Posts: 27


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
immaterial wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
immaterial wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
Iím not a fan of it, but everythingís got its place.
y.


Why are you not a fan of it?


Good question. You really got me thinking why I donít like it, and the honest answer is because Iím not good at it. Itís one of those things that you donít like what youíre not good at, so you avoid training it because you donít like it.

My feet are very flat. My toes arenít flexible. So the ball of my foot doesnít stick out very far when I do that kick and front kick. I think because of the angle the roundhouse comes it at, it would be pretty hard to use the ball of the foot with shoes on. A front kick, at least my front kick, rises upwards on contact, so wearing shoes doesnít hinder it much. My roundhouse is hindered by shoes. Iíve hit a bag with both kick while wearing shoes many times; roundhouse with the ball of the foot isnít a good kick for me, but front kick with the ball of my foot is perfectly fine.

Even if it was a good kick for me, Iíd still prefer the lower 1/3 of the shin. Itís a lot bigger surface area and therefore I donít need to be as precise. Itís like swinging a bat vs a hammer IMO. Sure the hammer will have more pressure, but the bat wonít miss as easily.

As for breaking your foot by using your instep to the head vs shin or ball of the foot, I donít think thatís a real world concern. Iíve seen countless full power instep to the head kicks in competition, and I havenít seen a broken foot. Iíd be willing to bet less people break their foot off of someoneís head than break their hand off of someoneís head. I say that percentage-wise because obviously less people kick the head than punch it. It would be an interesting scientific study.


Do you really need to pull back your toes though in order for it to work? this guy doesn't...

http://shitokai.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Sensei-Tanzadeh-Performing-Mawashi-Geri.jpg

Iíll try it tomorrow morning in class and report back. Hopefully Iím not reporting that I broke or dislocated a few toes in the process


Let me know what you think about mine, I'm going to work on perfecting it for 6 months, see how good it can be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJUMW0vD-Rc
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2272
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did it during kihon in class. Felt odd but after a few it was fine.

Tried it in kumite. Yeah... not so good. I didnít catch my toes on anything, so thatís a plus. My distancing was off for it. My preferred range is closer than most peopleís, and Iím used to trying to bury my lower shin into my target; itís a bigger adjustment than I thought it would be. Hitting a bag with it is one thing; hitting a moving opponent whoís trying to hit you back or hit you before you hit them is another thing.
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Age-Uke
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 11 Feb 2019
Posts: 14

Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mawashi geri with the ball of the foot

I associate that waza with Tsumaski waza (toe kicks.) Both strategies for SD do well when your wearing shoes.
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2272
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Immaterial - I tried watching your video but it doesnít open for me.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14182
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

immaterial wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
immaterial wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
Iím not a fan of it, but everythingís got its place.
y.


Why are you not a fan of it?


Good question. You really got me thinking why I donít like it, and the honest answer is because Iím not good at it. Itís one of those things that you donít like what youíre not good at, so you avoid training it because you donít like it.

My feet are very flat. My toes arenít flexible. So the ball of my foot doesnít stick out very far when I do that kick and front kick. I think because of the angle the roundhouse comes it at, it would be pretty hard to use the ball of the foot with shoes on. A front kick, at least my front kick, rises upwards on contact, so wearing shoes doesnít hinder it much. My roundhouse is hindered by shoes. Iíve hit a bag with both kick while wearing shoes many times; roundhouse with the ball of the foot isnít a good kick for me, but front kick with the ball of my foot is perfectly fine.

Even if it was a good kick for me, Iíd still prefer the lower 1/3 of the shin. Itís a lot bigger surface area and therefore I donít need to be as precise. Itís like swinging a bat vs a hammer IMO. Sure the hammer will have more pressure, but the bat wonít miss as easily.

As for breaking your foot by using your instep to the head vs shin or ball of the foot, I donít think thatís a real world concern. Iíve seen countless full power instep to the head kicks in competition, and I havenít seen a broken foot. Iíd be willing to bet less people break their foot off of someoneís head than break their hand off of someoneís head. I say that percentage-wise because obviously less people kick the head than punch it. It would be an interesting scientific study.


Do you really need to pull back your toes though in order for it to work? this guy doesn't...

http://shitokai.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Sensei-Tanzadeh-Performing-Mawashi-Geri.jpg

Had better look a little more closer again...His toes ARE pulled back of some degree!!



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RW
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 317


PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
Why not train it? Itís another option available to you if you can use it. Iím not a fan of it, but everythingís got its place.

We use the instep mostly. I prefer the lower shin. Which part I use (instep vs shin) depends on the target and how close I am. The head is higher typically, so Iíd never reach with my shin. Ribs and lower, Iím using my shin.

All that being said, Iím not throwing a roundhouse above my own waist in a SD situation. Iím not flexible enough and itís a pretty risky move for me. If I had the athleticism, timing and speed and power to make it a fight ender, Iíd use it when the opportunity presented itself.

If Iím being attacked my some oompah loompahs or little kids, then jodan mawashi geri time

Iíll kick an opponent in the head practically every time I truly need to in SD if his head is on or near the ground. Itís not a head kick Iím opposed to at all; itís reaching too far for it and leaving too good of an opening that Iím not going to do. Thereís better far les risk/high reward stuff.

But Iíd throw a roundhouse to the head before a nukite/spearhand. If I did the old-school hand conditioning that would be a different story.


I really feel there has to be some lost knowledge as to what some techniques (such as nukite) truly are. The fingers don't even have muscles (no, really: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger ) , I really doubt that most people could condition their fingers to the point they could be throwing nukites as if they were tsukis.

Some people support this theory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tABd4kpUlqI
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