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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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 Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| aurik wrote: |
| I've always done mawashi geri with either the shin or instep. Of course, I would never try to kick to the head in a self-defense situation -- it's too slow and you run the risk of losing your balance if the ground isn't flat and level. Frankly, I think there are far too many good targets much lower, such as the outer thigh and the floating ribs/kidneys. |
I generally punch above my waist and kick below my waist. That doesn’t mean I don’t kick above my opponent’s waist and don’t punch below it.
And every rule has an exception. I unfortunately had to kick a guy in the chest a few times, but he was on the ground. Only time I ever kicked in a true SD situation. |
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immaterial
Yellow Belt
Joined: 12 Jan 2019
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| JR 137 wrote: |
| immaterial wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
I’m not a fan of it, but everything’s got its place.
y. |
Why are you not a fan of it? |
Good question. You really got me thinking why I don’t like it, and the honest answer is because I’m not good at it. It’s one of those things that you don’t like what you’re not good at, so you avoid training it because you don’t like it.
My feet are very flat. My toes aren’t flexible. So the ball of my foot doesn’t stick out very far when I do that kick and front kick. I think because of the angle the roundhouse comes it at, it would be pretty hard to use the ball of the foot with shoes on. A front kick, at least my front kick, rises upwards on contact, so wearing shoes doesn’t hinder it much. My roundhouse is hindered by shoes. I’ve hit a bag with both kick while wearing shoes many times; roundhouse with the ball of the foot isn’t a good kick for me, but front kick with the ball of my foot is perfectly fine.
Even if it was a good kick for me, I’d still prefer the lower 1/3 of the shin. It’s a lot bigger surface area and therefore I don’t need to be as precise. It’s like swinging a bat vs a hammer IMO. Sure the hammer will have more pressure, but the bat won’t miss as easily.
As for breaking your foot by using your instep to the head vs shin or ball of the foot, I don’t think that’s a real world concern. I’ve seen countless full power instep to the head kicks in competition, and I haven’t seen a broken foot. I’d be willing to bet less people break their foot off of someone’s head than break their hand off of someone’s head. I say that percentage-wise because obviously less people kick the head than punch it. It would be an interesting scientific study. |
Do you really need to pull back your toes though in order for it to work? this guy doesn't...
http://shitokai.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Sensei-Tanzadeh-Performing-Mawashi-Geri.jpg |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| immaterial wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| immaterial wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
I’m not a fan of it, but everything’s got its place.
y. |
Why are you not a fan of it? |
Good question. You really got me thinking why I don’t like it, and the honest answer is because I’m not good at it. It’s one of those things that you don’t like what you’re not good at, so you avoid training it because you don’t like it.
My feet are very flat. My toes aren’t flexible. So the ball of my foot doesn’t stick out very far when I do that kick and front kick. I think because of the angle the roundhouse comes it at, it would be pretty hard to use the ball of the foot with shoes on. A front kick, at least my front kick, rises upwards on contact, so wearing shoes doesn’t hinder it much. My roundhouse is hindered by shoes. I’ve hit a bag with both kick while wearing shoes many times; roundhouse with the ball of the foot isn’t a good kick for me, but front kick with the ball of my foot is perfectly fine.
Even if it was a good kick for me, I’d still prefer the lower 1/3 of the shin. It’s a lot bigger surface area and therefore I don’t need to be as precise. It’s like swinging a bat vs a hammer IMO. Sure the hammer will have more pressure, but the bat won’t miss as easily.
As for breaking your foot by using your instep to the head vs shin or ball of the foot, I don’t think that’s a real world concern. I’ve seen countless full power instep to the head kicks in competition, and I haven’t seen a broken foot. I’d be willing to bet less people break their foot off of someone’s head than break their hand off of someone’s head. I say that percentage-wise because obviously less people kick the head than punch it. It would be an interesting scientific study. |
Do you really need to pull back your toes though in order for it to work? this guy doesn't...
http://shitokai.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Sensei-Tanzadeh-Performing-Mawashi-Geri.jpg |
I’ll try it tomorrow morning in class and report back. Hopefully I’m not reporting that I broke or dislocated a few toes in the process  |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Why?? Why not??
To train in IT is better than not ever training in IT; the summation of 'why' is to the summation of 'because'!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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immaterial
Yellow Belt
Joined: 12 Jan 2019
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| JR 137 wrote: |
| immaterial wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| immaterial wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
I’m not a fan of it, but everything’s got its place.
y. |
Why are you not a fan of it? |
Good question. You really got me thinking why I don’t like it, and the honest answer is because I’m not good at it. It’s one of those things that you don’t like what you’re not good at, so you avoid training it because you don’t like it.
My feet are very flat. My toes aren’t flexible. So the ball of my foot doesn’t stick out very far when I do that kick and front kick. I think because of the angle the roundhouse comes it at, it would be pretty hard to use the ball of the foot with shoes on. A front kick, at least my front kick, rises upwards on contact, so wearing shoes doesn’t hinder it much. My roundhouse is hindered by shoes. I’ve hit a bag with both kick while wearing shoes many times; roundhouse with the ball of the foot isn’t a good kick for me, but front kick with the ball of my foot is perfectly fine.
Even if it was a good kick for me, I’d still prefer the lower 1/3 of the shin. It’s a lot bigger surface area and therefore I don’t need to be as precise. It’s like swinging a bat vs a hammer IMO. Sure the hammer will have more pressure, but the bat won’t miss as easily.
As for breaking your foot by using your instep to the head vs shin or ball of the foot, I don’t think that’s a real world concern. I’ve seen countless full power instep to the head kicks in competition, and I haven’t seen a broken foot. I’d be willing to bet less people break their foot off of someone’s head than break their hand off of someone’s head. I say that percentage-wise because obviously less people kick the head than punch it. It would be an interesting scientific study. |
Do you really need to pull back your toes though in order for it to work? this guy doesn't...
http://shitokai.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Sensei-Tanzadeh-Performing-Mawashi-Geri.jpg |
I’ll try it tomorrow morning in class and report back. Hopefully I’m not reporting that I broke or dislocated a few toes in the process |
Let me know what you think about mine, I'm going to work on perfecting it for 6 months, see how good it can be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJUMW0vD-Rc |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:41 am Post subject: |
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I did it during kihon in class. Felt odd but after a few it was fine.
Tried it in kumite. Yeah... not so good. I didn’t catch my toes on anything, so that’s a plus. My distancing was off for it. My preferred range is closer than most people’s, and I’m used to trying to bury my lower shin into my target; it’s a bigger adjustment than I thought it would be. Hitting a bag with it is one thing; hitting a moving opponent who’s trying to hit you back or hit you before you hit them is another thing. |
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Age-Uke
Yellow Belt
Joined: 11 Feb 2019
Posts: 27
Styles: Shotokan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Mawashi geri with the ball of the foot
I associate that waza with Tsumaski waza (toe kicks.) Both strategies for SD do well when your wearing shoes.
_________________
There is no block in Karate |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Immaterial - I tried watching your video but it doesn’t open for me. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| immaterial wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| immaterial wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
I’m not a fan of it, but everything’s got its place.
y. |
Why are you not a fan of it? |
Good question. You really got me thinking why I don’t like it, and the honest answer is because I’m not good at it. It’s one of those things that you don’t like what you’re not good at, so you avoid training it because you don’t like it.
My feet are very flat. My toes aren’t flexible. So the ball of my foot doesn’t stick out very far when I do that kick and front kick. I think because of the angle the roundhouse comes it at, it would be pretty hard to use the ball of the foot with shoes on. A front kick, at least my front kick, rises upwards on contact, so wearing shoes doesn’t hinder it much. My roundhouse is hindered by shoes. I’ve hit a bag with both kick while wearing shoes many times; roundhouse with the ball of the foot isn’t a good kick for me, but front kick with the ball of my foot is perfectly fine.
Even if it was a good kick for me, I’d still prefer the lower 1/3 of the shin. It’s a lot bigger surface area and therefore I don’t need to be as precise. It’s like swinging a bat vs a hammer IMO. Sure the hammer will have more pressure, but the bat won’t miss as easily.
As for breaking your foot by using your instep to the head vs shin or ball of the foot, I don’t think that’s a real world concern. I’ve seen countless full power instep to the head kicks in competition, and I haven’t seen a broken foot. I’d be willing to bet less people break their foot off of someone’s head than break their hand off of someone’s head. I say that percentage-wise because obviously less people kick the head than punch it. It would be an interesting scientific study. |
Do you really need to pull back your toes though in order for it to work? this guy doesn't...
http://shitokai.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Sensei-Tanzadeh-Performing-Mawashi-Geri.jpg |
Had better look a little more closer again...His toes ARE pulled back of some degree!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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RW
Green Belt
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| JR 137 wrote: |
Why not train it? It’s another option available to you if you can use it. I’m not a fan of it, but everything’s got its place.
We use the instep mostly. I prefer the lower shin. Which part I use (instep vs shin) depends on the target and how close I am. The head is higher typically, so I’d never reach with my shin. Ribs and lower, I’m using my shin.
All that being said, I’m not throwing a roundhouse above my own waist in a SD situation. I’m not flexible enough and it’s a pretty risky move for me. If I had the athleticism, timing and speed and power to make it a fight ender, I’d use it when the opportunity presented itself.
If I’m being attacked my some oompah loompahs or little kids, then jodan mawashi geri time
I’ll kick an opponent in the head practically every time I truly need to in SD if his head is on or near the ground. It’s not a head kick I’m opposed to at all; it’s reaching too far for it and leaving too good of an opening that I’m not going to do. There’s better far les risk/high reward stuff.
But I’d throw a roundhouse to the head before a nukite/spearhand. If I did the old-school hand conditioning that would be a different story. |
I really feel there has to be some lost knowledge as to what some techniques (such as nukite) truly are. The fingers don't even have muscles (no, really: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger ) , I really doubt that most people could condition their fingers to the point they could be throwing nukites as if they were tsukis.
Some people support this theory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tABd4kpUlqI |
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on the post.
