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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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 Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Another excellent tutorial, Alex; as always!!
Personally, this choke isn't for the beginner student, and I'm not saying that what you're teaching is for the beginner, because to many things can go wrong, especially in your first variation, whereas you're trying to get your left arm to transition to and through to the opponents left elbow into the choking position.
Your thoughts, please!
I believe that if a beginner student was to try any of your variations, and understand, they're excellent and effective variations, all of them, but to try these by an unknowing beginning student can be a disaster.
Shindokan is taught to respect the choke! The game of cat and mouse is ALWAYS at hand!!
Shindokan teaches a plethora of chokes at all levels, but we reserve this choke for intermediate students.
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2733
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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This has been my favorite gi-choke ever since I first learned it! I have to say, though, we never played with using our own gi to choke people 
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, guys! I really enjoy the last variant as well.
Bob, the choke as it's taught from directly behind the partner is pretty common at beginning levels. The application from counters to the side and then the lapel are generally used by more experienced students.
With the focus of BJJ, chokes are very common at beginning levels.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhRVuwbm__LwXPvFMReMww |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| tallgeese wrote: |
Thanks, guys! I really enjoy the last variant as well.
Bob, the choke as it's taught from directly behind the partner is pretty common at beginning levels. The application from counters to the side and then the lapel are generally used by more experienced students.
With the focus of BJJ, chokes are very common at beginning levels. |
Shows the different methodologies and ideologies. You teach it at the beginner level, whereas, we don't until the intermediate level. I suppose what I'm referring to is the what you speak towards in your last sentence. I suppose also that Soke had no trust in teaching this to beginners; Shindokan just might behind the 8-ball on this one!!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| tallgeese wrote: |
Thanks, guys! I really enjoy the last variant as well.
Bob, the choke as it's taught from directly behind the partner is pretty common at beginning levels. The application from counters to the side and then the lapel are generally used by more experienced students.
With the focus of BJJ, chokes are very common at beginning levels. |
Shows the different methodologies and ideologies. You teach it at the beginner level, whereas, we don't until the intermediate level. I suppose what I'm referring to is the what you speak towards in your last sentence. I suppose also that Soke had no trust in teaching this to beginners; Shindokan just might behind the 8-ball on this one!!
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Not necessarily, it's a different focus. We get to solely focus on one area. That lets us accelerate certain things. If you're looking at a traditional art that has forms, striking, one step sparring, etc. it takes more time to get across all those dominos. We can focus exclusively on those matters of the ground.
By extension, my PTK doesn't advance as fast as those who commit to it full time. I'm only doing it 2-3 times per week. I have to split time between my BJJ and driving my kali forward. Hence, it's slower for me to move forward in my weapons work. That's okay, it's just where I spend the bulk of maytime is the ground.
So, if you're looking at the plethora of skills your teaching in a traditional art, and adding ground, then you're going to move at a slower pace on some things. This isn't a bad thing, it's a choice of focus. That's all. And it will be different for each art and individual practitioner.
Heck I see so many karate people who haven't even scratched the real capabilities of grappling that I think it's great when it gets taught at any point.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| tallgeese wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
| tallgeese wrote: |
Thanks, guys! I really enjoy the last variant as well.
Bob, the choke as it's taught from directly behind the partner is pretty common at beginning levels. The application from counters to the side and then the lapel are generally used by more experienced students.
With the focus of BJJ, chokes are very common at beginning levels. |
Shows the different methodologies and ideologies. You teach it at the beginner level, whereas, we don't until the intermediate level. I suppose what I'm referring to is the what you speak towards in your last sentence. I suppose also that Soke had no trust in teaching this to beginners; Shindokan just might behind the 8-ball on this one!!
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Not necessarily, it's a different focus. We get to solely focus on one area. That lets us accelerate certain things. If you're looking at a traditional art that has forms, striking, one step sparring, etc. it takes more time to get across all those dominos. We can focus exclusively on those matters of the ground.
By extension, my PTK doesn't advance as fast as those who commit to it full time. I'm only doing it 2-3 times per week. I have to split time between my BJJ and driving my kali forward. Hence, it's slower for me to move forward in my weapons work. That's okay, it's just where I spend the bulk of maytime is the ground.
So, if you're looking at the plethora of skills your teaching in a traditional art, and adding ground, then you're going to move at a slower pace on some things. This isn't a bad thing, it's a choice of focus. That's all. And it will be different for each art and individual practitioner.
Heck I see so many karate people who haven't even scratched the real capabilities of grappling that I think it's great when it gets taught at any point. |
Solid post...great points!!
Soke, imho, was actually ahead of the 8-ball because we do grapple, although it's more like a trickle down because, as you said, our focus is spread out with all Soke put into Shindokan. For a karate style, Shindokan has something that not many karate styles have...grappling, and not a casual participation; quite in depth.
Tuite is our main focus, per say!! This incorporates close range!! Which includes Kyusho, and all three of these accompany our brand of grappling; they're all one model...hence, the core of Shindokan.
If I'm making any sense!!
Your first variant caught my eye because one of the first things a beginner in Shindokan realizes when trying to commit to the segments that make the choke is:
*Can't find the elbow, if anything. They know it's there, somewhere, but they fumble for it.
*Whenever the opponent leans to the back or side, while twisting out, the student is now off-line.
I remember vividly when Soke leaned right into Dai-Soke just before identifying said elbow and the like...Soke was on the mount quick...stunned us...stunned Dai-Soke.
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on the post.
