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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16424
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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 Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Imagine if there was no testing whatsoever, no matter the industry. Anarchy? Perhaps, of some degree. Significant tests? Well, have to have recognized authority for said test to be significant. However, without tests, then how can one become recognized? By just an agreed census by the masses? Perhaps or perhaps not.
The good thing is that no one's forced to take any test because we're of free will. I respect that.
Sure, tests can be quite overwhelming, which can cause fear, and fear brings severe doubt of oneself. Guess what? The Testing Cycle will take care of itself!! Worrying or whatever else one might be feeling about an upcoming test won't make the test go away, nor will it make matters of the test easier.
The proof is on the floor, and not in the test. Therefore, the test will take care of itself. Want to remain Shodan?! I respect that; it's the practitioners choice, and no one else. Don't want to test anymore, or at all, I respect that too. That too is the practitioners choice, and no one else.
That's the beauty of choices; they're yours alone, just like your MA journey is.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Zaine
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2277
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| The proof is on the floor, and not in the test. Therefore, the test will take care of itself. Want to remain Shodan?! I respect that; it's the practitioners choice, and no one else. Don't want to test anymore, or at all, I respect that too. That too is the practitioners choice, and no one else. |
This sums it up really nicely. The first sentence affirms, I think, what any good teacher would tell any student. We're not giving you a test that we don't think that you will pass with flying colors. Tests are largely a formality. Can you fail tests that you would otherwise pass? Absolutely! But in general, I have found that these people didn't lack the skill necessary to rank up, but rather showed a lack of the proper attitude during the test to be considered for the rank.
Here's an example. Matsumura-Seito has a Nunchaku Training Kata that you learn at Ikkyu (1st kyu). I dislike this kata greatly. There is nothing about it that I enjoy, therefore, I practiced it daily. I wanted to do a good job on it for my test. During my test, 5 moves in, the kata just leaves my brain. I had forgotten it completely. TO THIS DAY, I could not do the kata for you. I practiced it until I wanted to throw my nunchaku out of the window, but during the test? Gone. So I improvised. I did something that was close to the kata without missing a beat. At the end, my testing board gave me compliments on the kata, said that my technique looked good. Then my Sensei, with a grin on his face, asked if I would be able to do that again. I smiled back and said "No, Sensei, I forgot the kata 5 moves in. I think nerves got to me and I lost the movements." When I passed this test, this moment was cited as one of the reasons. It was not only my ability to improvise effectively without giving away my mistake in the moment, but the humility that I had to admit that I failed on an aspect of my overall training.
All of that to say, tests are tests. They are nerve wracking and anxiety inducing. However, a good teacher isn't going to set up students for failure. They know you know the material. If you want to stay at a certain level, great, but an effective teacher will continue to push you forward because it reflects positively on them to have students who meet the expectations of a certain rank. Will they also respect wishes to stay at Shodan? Certainly! You're paying them to learn and at the end of the day if the customer wants something that is easily achievable by the business then why not?
_________________
Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/ |
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Himokiri Karate
Member of the Month
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 408
Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
Imagine if there was no testing whatsoever, no matter the industry. Anarchy? Perhaps, of some degree. Significant tests? Well, have to have recognized authority for said test to be significant. However, without tests, then how can one become recognized? By just an agreed census by the masses? Perhaps or perhaps not.
The good thing is that no one's forced to take any test because we're of free will. I respect that.
Sure, tests can be quite overwhelming, which can cause fear, and fear brings severe doubt of oneself. Guess what? The Testing Cycle will take care of itself!! Worrying or whatever else one might be feeling about an upcoming test won't make the test go away, nor will it make matters of the test easier.
The proof is on the floor, and not in the test. Therefore, the test will take care of itself. Want to remain Shodan?! I respect that; it's the practitioners choice, and no one else. Don't want to test anymore, or at all, I respect that too. That too is the practitioners choice, and no one else.
That's the beauty of choices; they're yours alone, just like your MA journey is.
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As someone who has trained in boxing, kung fu and sambo, I am vibing hard ( new youth slang) with everything mentioned. Boxing training for me was pretty much my 20s in a nutshell. If you got footwork, you got good footwork, if you got a good jab then that is what you got. In boxing, people count the specific weapons you are carrying. Some trainers label you as a primary and secondary fighter.
Maybe your primary weapon is your in-fighting and some boxers are good at long range fighting. This is how things are measured in boxing.
However we do have a problem:
While boxing is incentivized by the offerings of fame, money and glory. Karate is not. That and human beings love the idea of validation and attaining a sense of achievement. Belt systems offer that sensation. It also allows the teachers making ends meet.
My personal love for Karate came from the fact that the training really enhances boxing techniques. That and the structure, the names of the move and ranking gives the art an organized appearance that allows you to see what you need to work on. One problem with boxing is, guys show up in the gym and start wailing on the bag. The students neglect developing awareness of side-stance, squared up stance and even stances that are pertained for exercising the body as oppose to just combat.
Hence its more than just a belt. But belt gets people to the door but real skills will keep the students.
_________________
It begins with the knowledge that the severity of a strikes impact is amplified by a smaller surface area. |
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KarateKen
Green Belt
Joined: 12 Nov 2021
Posts: 399
Location: Dojo
Styles: Karate
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Zaine wrote: |
| KarateKen wrote: |
| Part of that might have been testing anxiety I was experiencing about the upcoming belt test I had, but I have been thinking that way for a while. First degree BB is enough for me to feel satisfied. Besides I hate testing. I don't see myself as a Karate lifer. |
Keep an open mind, my suspicion is that by the time you get to Shodan that you will feel differently. An adage that we like to repeat, both here and as Karateka in general, is that Shodan is just the beginning. Testing anxiety does suck, but we all feel it. I've been doing Martial Arts for 19 years and a I just tested for gokyu (green belt) and I was anxious. I've been a gokyu before, I've been a Shodan for over a decade, I practiced, and I new I had nothing worry about; but I was still worried. A good sensei does not test students who they don't know aren't ready to move up. |
It's possible I could change my mind, I've been known to do that. And I agree that we do not test until we are ready. |
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karatepastor
White Belt
Joined: 16 Oct 2021
Posts: 20
Location: Naples, FL
Styles: Boxing, Karate, Jui Jitsu
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:26 am Post subject: |
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I had a very seriously considered it. Because I was using a curriculum for a rather distinctly Christian Karate program, or a man has really created a system to use the Karate as a means of Bible memorization, while engaging the kids physical bodies. It was providing a good avenue for ministry in my churches, and simply wearing a black belt while training the kids through a colored belt system was working fine. However, as my own sons were advancing through the belt structure, they wanted to also advance into more technical and more intense martial arts training.
I realized that I would like to do the same thing. So, we’re now training Brazilian jujitsu in addition to our karate practice and we restructured our curriculum and aligned with an organization that allows me to get Dan rank promotions, as well as for my sons and any future students that advanced to that level.
So my point is this, I think it really depends on your purpose and your program. Like a lot of other people have said, if you’re a part of a system or a curriculum or an organization where to advance me on Shodan is a part of the system, well then advance beyond that rank. And if your purpose in teaching or practice or competition or whatever would benefit from advancing to higher degrees of black belt, or it meets some kind of personal goal and it’s legitimate and not ego driven, then do that. For me, how do I simply continue to teach that same curriculum, there would’ve been no need for anything other than simply saying I am the professor, I am the teacher, but as we have advanced our goals in karate have changed.
_________________
“A kata is not fixed or immoveable. Like water, it's ever changing and fits itself to the shape of the vessel containing it. However, kata are not some kind of beautiful competitive dance, but a grand martial art of self-defense - which determines life and death.”
Kenwa Mabuni |
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Montana
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 883
Location: Formerly Kalispell, Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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I was at shodan for NINE YEARS!
No, it's not because I'm slow, but rather because I lived so far away from anybody in my system that could teach me, or test me. I didn't have the time or money to travel all over the world and train/test. It was GREAT when video cameras came out so I coukld send videos to higher ups and get their help. I did take me 9 years to eventually scrape together a train ticket to Minnesota and tain with a 6th Dan that tested me for Nidan. 4 years later for Sandan in Seattle.
_________________
If you don't want to stand behind our troops, please..feel free to stand in front of them.
Student since January 1975---4th Dan, retired due to non-martial arts related injuries. |
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Fractured
White Belt
Joined: 24 Feb 2023
Posts: 10
Location: BC, Canada
Styles: Isshinryu
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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I had recently graded and was presented with my Nidan. This process all happened so fast for me. I got my Shodan in late 2011, trained for a few years, and took a few years off... you know that cycle... Anyways, I have been back at it for a while now and felt I needed to "re-kindle" my love for the art. So the second my Sensei asked me "When did you grade last?" I mentioned that I'd like to be graded.
If I didn't feel I needed "re-kindling", then I would have happily kept on keepin' on as Shodan. This time around, however, was a much more emotional experience for me as my Sensei has sort of retired.
_________________
"The time to strike is when the opportunity presents itself." |
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EJC
White Belt
Joined: 04 Aug 2023
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Would you ever consider just staying a 1st degree for li |
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| Shojiko wrote: |
Would anyone consider staying a 1st degree once its achieved and decline higher ranks for the remainder of your lifetime? Or do away with the dan system totally (jk)
I personally see more positives than negatives when really getting to think about it. I always thought it would be more impressive that a black belt alone can work and give higher dan ranks in trouble (if they had close to the equal amount of time training). The 1st degree would have nothing to lose and would actually give the term "Black belt" real meaning again.. |
Sure; I've been a Nidan for 34 years. It hasn't affected my practice in the slightest. Of course, I refuse to play the political games that "earn" one higher ranks. |
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Sailor Sindbad
Yellow Belt
Joined: 05 Dec 2019
Posts: 77
Styles: Kobayashi Shorin-ryu, Shotokan, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 7:09 am Post subject: |
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In my opinion, stopping at shodan and claiming to "not care about belts" is a self-contradiction.
Because what really happened is that you got what you wanted (the black belt), and NOW you don't care about rank. But you did up until you got that black belt, though.
If you're Goju-ryu, you should want to learn Suparenpai; if you're Shotokan, you should want to learn Unsu, etc. And that doesn't happen at shodan.
_________________
History:
Kobayashi Shorin-ryu, 2019 - 2023: Rokkyu
Shotokan, 2023 - Present: Yonkyu
Judo, 2023: Novice
Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, 2023 - Present: White Belt |
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aurik
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 499
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| Sailor Sindbad wrote: |
In my opinion, stopping at shodan and claiming to "not care about belts" is a self-contradiction.
Because what really happened is that you got what you wanted (the black belt), and NOW you don't care about rank. But you did up until you got that black belt, though.
If you're Goju-ryu, you should want to learn Suparenpai; if you're Shotokan, you should want to learn Unsu, etc. And that doesn't happen at shodan. |
Many people I have talked to, usually those outside the martial arts, see earning your black belt as the end of your MA journey. I remember when I was talking to my sister awhile back -- she had her son in karate and was talking about how far he had to go until black belt, as if that was the end of the journey. At the two previous schools I was at, there were only a couple of black belts, who were all so far beyond where we were in our journey.
At my current school, there are a LOT of black belts and junior black belts who still actively train. In a given week, I'll train with:
5-6 shodan-sho
5-6 shodan (some of whom are also nidan-sho)
3-4 nidan
1 sandan
1 yondan
2 godans
This doesn't include my CI (6 dan), his stepmom (7 dan) and his father (8 dan). They both regularly seek out more senior instructors for guidance, feedback, and new techniques and/or reinterpretations of old techniques. At least at our school, it is possible to earn godan without any politicking, but I think earning godan does require you to teach. (I know of at least one sandan and one yondan who do not teach at all). Basically, our CI just keeps an eye on you, and once you've hit the TIG and age requirements, and he's satisfied with your understanding, he invites you to test.
_________________
My Journey (So Far)
Shuri-Ryu 1996-1997 - Gokyu
Judo 1996-1997 - Yonkyu
Uechi-Ryu 2018-Present - Nidan
ABS Bladesmith 2021-Present - Apprentice |
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on the post.
