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JR 137
KF Sempai
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Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2272
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
Lots of good comments here so far. As mentioned above, I think that if you enjoy the training, then continue to do so.

If it were me, I'd look at what the person is teaching, and at how practical what they are doing is. If I think they have something that is sound and effective, then its worth doing. If they don't, then I'd move on.

Something that does bother me, though, in situations like this, is why these folks tend to insist on claiming they've created their own style. I get the desire to be recognized as an individual, but if you've done some training in Shotokan and/or Kyokushin, then why not just say that your style is based off Shotokan or Kyokushin with whatever your philosophical or pedagogical approach to teaching is? To me, it would make one sound more credible. But that's just me.


I agree. When I hear of these new styles pop up, to me they most often seem like a new organization rather than an actual style. Ie someone breaking away from an organization and starting their own, while retaining most of what the former style did and tweaking the syllabus to their liking.

Even Joko Ninomiya calls his art karate. Enshin karate. Ninomiya took his Kyokushin and judo experience and combined them into one system. Itís more Kyokushin heavy than judo, but thereís quite a bit of judo in there. Iíd consider it a more of new style rather than a new organization. Most of the people I see starting their own style arenít doing what Ninomiya did to the extent he did/does it.

Maybe Iím off here though.
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tallgeese
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6834
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Would you train with someone who started their own style Reply with quote

mirkoinbrazil wrote:
Sometimes I come across schools started by someone teaching their own style or a recently created style. I've been around the block (in my opinion) enough to know if the stuff being taught is useful and correct, which this one seems to be that I enjoy going to now. It's basically a backyard version of kyokushin or shotokan in my opinion. I suppose the instructor got trained in some style for a while before starting his own, but i've never seen a guest from the old class or heard of the style outside my town. But i like the instruction and fellowship at this place.

Is it possible to train in a style that's not nationally recognized and may be taught by someone who didn't actually get a black belt but was very good, and still feel proud to be there?

Thanks guys,,,


Lots of good comments already and I'd agree, it's totally possible AND your journey. Do what you enjoy and seems to best fit what you're looking to get out of the arts.

That said, I'd like to see the lineages he's coming out of to gain credibility. For instance, if it's a karate derivatives which stresses the addition of movements out of Kali to supplement weapons work then I'd want to know his or her history in the karate art that serves as the base AND how long they spent on a blade in Kali. That's a good indicator of how well thought out the integration is.

Someone with 10 years in karate and 5 doing Kali will have far more complete answers than someone who was in each for a year and simply wanted to stand at the front of the class.

This kind of thing goes to how well tested the system is as each of those disciplines come with a lot of data behind them on how they perform in their given realms. Without that you're operating on theory.

I'd also vet the instructors credentials in whatever he's purporting it does. Training and RBSD has become very vogue these days, but the actual amount of people who are qualified via training and experience to actually help you understand it is far less than the number running schools. Thoroughly vet instructors as well as systems.

That said, it's totally belie valve that your instructor has check all these boxes and your in a good place. Just evaluate. That's all.
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Trailer_Ape
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 24 Apr 2017
Posts: 44
Location: Kansas
Styles: Hawaiian Kempo

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinda goes both ways -

I really don't put 100% faith in "arts"; "styles"; "systems". Kinda feel like EVERY one has their own style and ya find that out as soon as ya start bangin it out with someone and find ya don't move the same exact way as the instructor or other classmates, ya don't react exactly the same. It is all kinda (learned) concepts an mechanics but ultimately you're on yer own to do what needs doin to get the work done. I think certain TRAINING METHODS tend to produce better fighters but not so much different "arts". So absolutely! If a guy was good at what he was doing, I'll ask him to show me how HE is doing it. Not the Shorin Ryu, Kempo, Krav Maga, Wing Chun way but HIS way.

The flip side to that is - he could be unstoppable, the best fighter the world has ever seen.... doesn't mean his methods are gonna work for me... or you. Although I bet if I train with him for awhile, I'll take at least one "nugget" of value with me. I'll find at least one "tool" that I wanna keep in my box
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Himokiri Karate
Orange Belt
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Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 197


PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We all have to start somewhere. That being said, a new style in modern times will face scrutiny. So the person who is pioneering it has to prove its worth. Hence the beautiful saying that is...The proof is on the floor!
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2016


PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would start training with someone that started their own style and if it is better than mine I would stick with it till something better is available.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14182
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
I would start training with someone that started their own style and if it is better than mine I would stick with it till something better is available.

This speaks to me that change is inevitable, one way or another; hopefully the latter of the two.



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Mitlov
White Belt
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Joined: 12 Dec 2018
Posts: 9

Styles: Currently Chun Kuk Do. Formerly fencing, TKD, Shotokan

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Would you train with someone who started their own style Reply with quote

mirkoinbrazil wrote:
Sometimes I come across schools started by someone teaching their own style or a recently created style. I've been around the block (in my opinion) enough to know if the stuff being taught is useful and correct, which this one seems to be that I enjoy going to now. It's basically a backyard version of kyokushin or shotokan in my opinion. I suppose the instructor got trained in some style for a while before starting his own, but i've never seen a guest from the old class or heard of the style outside my town. But i like the instruction and fellowship at this place.

Is it possible to train in a style that's not nationally recognized and may be taught by someone who didn't actually get a black belt but was very good, and still feel proud to be there?

Thanks guys,,,


I think it depends on why they created their "own" style, what their background is, and whether they are a talented teacher. If someone claims to teach secret techniques that nobody else has, or "rediscovered" an "ancient" art, I'd be very wary. But if there were ugly politics in an organization, or someone can clearly articulate reasons that seem fair ("I trained in X organization, but I wanted to incorporate more padwork or ground work than they were doing, so I went my own way to allow myself the flexibility to do that," I'd be much more open to it.

My current organization is a relatively recent creation. Chuck Norris trained in Tang Soo Do and then in the 1960s went and created his own organization (which definitely still feels rooted in TSD but has also evolved away from it in certain particular respects). "Evolving" isn't inherently good or bad, and likewise "staying traditional" isn't inherently good or bad. You have to look at the total package and see if it's a good fit for what you want and what you're looking to get out of it.
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