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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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 Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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I'm still wondering just how hard the WWE superstar is going to hit when it's for real. Will he/she hit as hard as they can or will the ring habits cause him/her to throw a working punch? Brock proved to be an exception.
Just wondering!
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Rychi
White Belt
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 7
Location: England-Essex
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:11 am Post subject: |
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This is a real hard decision,
Wrestlers are defiantly in great shape, but that doesn't mean they are used to full on confrontations, big muscles doesn't mean you take punches better, whereas martial artists are (generally) trained in combat and rhythm.
Some wrestlers are amazing, kurt angle (olympic gold medalist and mastered amateur wrestling)
Brock Lesner went into UFC and MMA, where he dominated.
Ken Shamrok, himself and his brother went into MMA.
Bobby Lashley, he joined MMA too.
In my opinion, a smart martial artist would defeat a wrestler due to more experience in combat,
no muscle amount can outweigh the value of experience.
Forgetting the David and Goliath story?
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"I do not need to hear praise,
I do not need to see you clap,
I need to feel my heart beat..
I need to break through my limit, again." |
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MasterPain
Black Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1949
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:34 am Post subject: |
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David used a projectile weapon to hit a larger than normal target. Never understood how that was somehow more impressive.
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My fists bleed death. -Akuma |
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Liver Punch
Green Belt
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 417
Location: Snake Mountain
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Pro Wrestling, Gun-Fu
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Rychi wrote: |
This is a real hard decision,
Wrestlers are defiantly in great shape, but that doesn't mean they are used to full on confrontations, big muscles doesn't mean you take punches better, whereas martial artists are (generally) trained in combat and rhythm. |
Most of these guys can punch and kick as hard as they can, and have enough control to make sure that when the strike lands, it isn't damaging. If they decide to not slow down, the opportunity for them to cause damage is great.
The have amazing timing, agility, and speed - and a brain that has been taught to operate in a way that understands human movement, anatomy, and ring presence. They know how fast to move to close distances, and they understand angles of attack. All of this makes them pretty good at moving around and understanding the "battlefield".
Those "fake" punches, kicks, chairs to the head, and "bumps" aren't always as smooth and "fake" as they'd like. They get punched in the face by accident and under less accidental circumstances. The land wrong after falling from high places, and all sort of other nasty things. They do this night after night - some of them 300 nights a year or more...they're tough.
My recommendation? Get in a fight with a professional ping-pong player instead.
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Kuma
Black Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1092
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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In his book "Kill As Catch Can" on using freestyle wrestling for street fighting, Ned Beaumont mentions a few incidents of pro wrestlers fighting with police officers. All I can say is you definitely do not want to underestimate them. They are strong, tough, well conditioned, and can adapt what they know to really injure you. Hulk Hogan choking out Richard Belzer on TV is a good example of that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7n_SHrK408 |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuma wrote: |
In his book "Kill As Catch Can" on using freestyle wrestling for street fighting, Ned Beaumont mentions a few incidents of pro wrestlers fighting with police officers. All I can say is you definitely do not want to underestimate them. They are strong, tough, well conditioned, and can adapt what they know to really injure you. Hulk Hogan choking out Richard Belzer on TV is a good example of that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7n_SHrK408 |
Imho, that choke out wasn't real...it too was a working choke out!!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Rychi wrote: |
This is a real hard decision,
Wrestlers are defiantly in great shape, but that doesn't mean they are used to full on confrontations, big muscles doesn't mean you take punches better, whereas martial artists are (generally) trained in combat and rhythm.
Some wrestlers are amazing, kurt angle (olympic gold medalist and mastered amateur wrestling)
Brock Lesner went into UFC and MMA, where he dominated.
Ken Shamrok, himself and his brother went into MMA.
Bobby Lashley, he joined MMA too.
In my opinion, a smart martial artist would defeat a wrestler due to more experience in combat,
no muscle amount can outweigh the value of experience.
Forgetting the David and Goliath story? |
Ken Shamrock joined the WWF/E way after he had already established himself in the MMA world.
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Kuma
Black Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1092
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| Imho, that choke out wasn't real...it too was a working choke out!! |
I actually remembered when that happened (showing my age here). It was a big deal at the time and I think he eventually got a big settlement out of the Hulkster for it. |
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Liver Punch
Green Belt
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 417
Location: Snake Mountain
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Pro Wrestling, Gun-Fu
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| Rychi wrote: |
This is a real hard decision,
Wrestlers are defiantly in great shape, but that doesn't mean they are used to full on confrontations, big muscles doesn't mean you take punches better, whereas martial artists are (generally) trained in combat and rhythm.
Some wrestlers are amazing, kurt angle (olympic gold medalist and mastered amateur wrestling)
Brock Lesner went into UFC and MMA, where he dominated.
Ken Shamrok, himself and his brother went into MMA.
Bobby Lashley, he joined MMA too.
In my opinion, a smart martial artist would defeat a wrestler due to more experience in combat,
no muscle amount can outweigh the value of experience.
Forgetting the David and Goliath story? |
Ken Shamrock joined the WWF/E way after he had already established himself in the MMA world.
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Ken Shamrock established himself in the MMA world after establishing himself in Pancrase, which was after he's been a professional wrestler on the Georgia/South East regional circuit.
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"A gun is a tool. Like a butcher knife or a harpoon, or uhh... an alligator."
― Homer, The Simpsons |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Rychi wrote: |
| Wrestlers are defiantly in great shape, but that doesn't mean they are used to full on confrontations, big muscles doesn't mean you take punches better, whereas martial artists are (generally) trained in combat and rhythm. |
Actually, studies have shown that muscles help to insulate the body better from damage. So, having big muscles helps with being "tough." That's probably a big part of why most of the professional fighters out there are well muscled guys.
| Rychi wrote: |
| no muscle amount can outweigh the value of experience. |
I beg to differ on this as well. Being bigger and stronger than your opponent is a significant attribute in fighting and self-defense; that's why they created weight classes in professional combat sports. Its also the reason why in justifying a use of force, the size of the attacker can be brought into play in order to justify a higher degree of force in escaping an attack.
I'm not saying you are wrong in that experience isn't valuable; it very much is. What I am saying is that you can't discount someone's size and strength as an advantage to them, either.
You should also never assume that your attacker doesn't know anything about fighting. Underestimating your enemy is a good way to get thumped, too.
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on the post.
