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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2204


PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hadn't heard the word McDojo till joining this forum; in the past there wasn't a need for the term or name.

Looking at YouTube videos that are associated with McDojos, they can be comical to watch; with children's music playing along.

But with further investigation, it seems to me that many of the McDojo videos are something altogether different than what they are labeled as.

It seems to me that people that are mentality challenged are being videoed and labeled as McDojo students.

Perhaps this is a point of view to consider when viewing martial artsist that were born at a great disadvantage than the rest of us.

To laugh at them for being uncoordinated and awkward maybe they should be congratulated for their efforts.
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JazzKicker
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 128
Location: NJ
Styles: JKD, TSD, MMA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been on a dojang safari the last few weeks, and several local (commercial) schools have web sites like this, and even cheesier, more generic.

It's understandable, the people running the school are presumably instructors, not website developers. Martial arts is big business, and there are providers that will handle it for you, and monthly billing, contracts, etc.

That doesn't mean it's a McDojo- but it does mean they're trying to make money marketing to the general public, who want to send little Johnny to karate classes.

You really have to go in person and watch classes to see. I haven't had much luck, myself.
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2204


PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this McDojo or a group of mentally challenged black belts?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q3qEFaaAWaM
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Is this McDojo or a group of mentally challenged black belts?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q3qEFaaAWaM


I don't know if these individuals are mentally challenged. They do not appear to be. But one video does not dispel the fact that McDojo's exist.

I will ask since you gave one example and challenged us to decide whether this was a McDojo or mentally challenged people, does this mean that every video of a so called instructor or their students that show absolutely minimal skills that do not resemble the grade that they are wearing is mentally challenged?

I don't know if you asked this to cast a shadow of doubt on the McDojo issue or what the motivation is. But what I will tell you is this... if a person is wearing a grade well beyond their capabilities and is selling their so called skills to unsuspecting students they are a McDojo. If a world renowned master that truly has the skills of their grade but is selling belts like they are candy but doesn't bother to actually teach them, it's a McDojo. If belts are given for doing your homework and getting good grades or anything else that has nothing to do with the curriculum of the art, it's a McDojo. If the instructor and their students couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, that's right, McDojo. If the instructor makes excuses why they can't engage in Kumite or constantly refers to their grade certificates as though this is the only proof anyone needs of what they are teaching you, Yep McDojo!

So do these examples indicate mentally challenged or McDojo? I'll let you decide.

And to be honest, if these are mentally challenged students, I give them props and bow to them. However I doubt very seriously that every video of some phony fraud trying to sell themselves off as the grade they wear to make money from uninformed students is mentally challenged. Frauds, Liars, Snakes in the Grass... Yes, absolutely.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2204


PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
Is this McDojo or a group of mentally challenged black belts?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q3qEFaaAWaM


I don't know if these individuals are mentally challenged. They do not appear to be. But one video does not dispel the fact that McDojo's exist.

I will ask since you gave one example and challenged us to decide whether this was a McDojo or mentally challenged people, does this mean that every video of a so called instructor or their students that show absolutely minimal skills that do not resemble the grade that they are wearing is mentally challenged?

I don't know if you asked this to cast a shadow of doubt on the McDojo issue or what the motivation is. But what I will tell you is this... if a person is wearing a grade well beyond their capabilities and is selling their so called skills to unsuspecting students they are a McDojo. If a world renowned master that truly has the skills of their grade but is selling belts like they are candy but doesn't bother to actually teach them, it's a McDojo. If belts are given for doing your homework and getting good grades or anything else that has nothing to do with the curriculum of the art, it's a McDojo. If the instructor and their students couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, that's right, McDojo. If the instructor makes excuses why they can't engage in Kumite or constantly refers to their grade certificates as though this is the only proof anyone needs of what they are teaching you, Yep McDojo!

So do these examples indicate mentally challenged or McDojo? I'll let you decide.

And to be honest, if these are mentally challenged students, I give them props and bow to them. However I doubt very seriously that every video of some phony fraud trying to sell themselves off as the grade they wear to make money from uninformed students is mentally challenged. Frauds, Liars, Snakes in the Grass... Yes, absolutely.
I started my martial art journey back in the late 1970's; being naive and enthusiastic as anyone.

Today looking back on the methods and curriculum taught; it could seem McDojo-ish.

Yes all the katas were there but kumite was kickboxing.

Yes katas without any bunkai explanations; ever!

Karate strategies and concepts were never discussed.

Never any ground fighting practiced or mentioned.

Karate promoted as a self defence only but tournament fighting was highly encouraged.

Working for the sensei for free and many students went along wth this, thinking that was the done thing.

The higher ranks were very strong and capable martial artists, the respect for them was because of there abilities and not for the color of their belts.

The kick boxing aspect was probably due to being in the 1970's era.

Of course McDojos exist, but there is also questionable traditional karate schools that have very low standards, should they be labeled as McKarate?
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Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
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Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 661
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem I have is when a person thinks a place is a McDojo because they mix styles. With the prominence of mixed martial arts and the freedom that comes with it, it's amazing we look down on this. For most though I think they seem to feel it's a place that is after money. I use the term when I see a video like somebody posted above with the game music and the guys kicking eahother repeatedly.

I have never had the privilege of training in one system because of moving so much, however I feel now that I'm the privileged one, as it's put me in a position to be open minded. So in short, no way do I feel that a place is a McDojo because they blend arts. Making up moves as we go... now that's a different ballgame but If an instructor has experience in 3 arts and teaches those things how is that wrong?

Obviously a general statement from myself based on some of the things I see written, and nobody in particular.
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
Is this McDojo or a group of mentally challenged black belts?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q3qEFaaAWaM


I don't know if these individuals are mentally challenged. They do not appear to be. But one video does not dispel the fact that McDojo's exist.

I will ask since you gave one example and challenged us to decide whether this was a McDojo or mentally challenged people, does this mean that every video of a so called instructor or their students that show absolutely minimal skills that do not resemble the grade that they are wearing is mentally challenged?

I don't know if you asked this to cast a shadow of doubt on the McDojo issue or what the motivation is. But what I will tell you is this... if a person is wearing a grade well beyond their capabilities and is selling their so called skills to unsuspecting students they are a McDojo. If a world renowned master that truly has the skills of their grade but is selling belts like they are candy but doesn't bother to actually teach them, it's a McDojo. If belts are given for doing your homework and getting good grades or anything else that has nothing to do with the curriculum of the art, it's a McDojo. If the instructor and their students couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, that's right, McDojo. If the instructor makes excuses why they can't engage in Kumite or constantly refers to their grade certificates as though this is the only proof anyone needs of what they are teaching you, Yep McDojo!

So do these examples indicate mentally challenged or McDojo? I'll let you decide.

And to be honest, if these are mentally challenged students, I give them props and bow to them. However I doubt very seriously that every video of some phony fraud trying to sell themselves off as the grade they wear to make money from uninformed students is mentally challenged. Frauds, Liars, Snakes in the Grass... Yes, absolutely.


This
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Spartacus Maximus
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Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1723

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether or not a place can be called a "McDojo" has nothing to do with what is taught(the style or type of martial art). It has everything to do with how it is taught(the methods) and the primary vocation(profit over and above all) of the place and its instructor.

The term has been, and continues to be over-used to the point that it no longer has any real significance. It just is not possible to tell without knowing essential details. More than a casual look is necessary and sometimes it isn't obvious until one has experienced a school.
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2204


PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
Whether or not a place can be called a "McDojo" has nothing to do with what is taught(the style or type of martial art). It has everything to do with how it is taught(the methods) and the primary vocation(profit over and above all) of the place and its instructor.

The term has been, and continues to be over-used to the point that it no longer has any real significance. It just is not possible to tell without knowing essential details. More than a casual look is necessary and sometimes it isn't obvious until one has experienced a school.
Very good point of view Spartacus.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luther unleashed wrote:
The problem I have is when a person thinks a place is a McDojo because they mix styles. With the prominence of mixed martial arts and the freedom that comes with it, it's amazing we look down on this. For most though I think they seem to feel it's a place that is after money. I use the term when I see a video like somebody posted above with the game music and the guys kicking eahother repeatedly.

I have never had the privilege of training in one system because of moving so much, however I feel now that I'm the privileged one, as it's put me in a position to be open minded. So in short, no way do I feel that a place is a McDojo because they blend arts. Making up moves as we go... now that's a different ballgame but If an instructor has experience in 3 arts and teaches those things how is that wrong?

Obviously a general statement from myself based on some of the things I see written, and nobody in particular.


The above explanation would not be considered a McDojo in my terms. However I will say that this is not the only answer for an effective solution to self defense. Whether you take one art or many arts doesn't matter. What matters is what you get out of them and if you can effectively use what you have learned.

In fact there is the opposite side of the coin in that there are many (just check the internet) that have multiple high grades in several arts and use this as a tool to attract students. If you're one of the very few that are actually graded (earned) in several arts, then my hats off to you. However I personally see huge red flags when I see a person younger or older than me with high ranks in three or more arts. This is not McDojo, this would be fraud in 99% of the cases. There might be a few but I bet the grade was given not studied and earned.

There is nothing wrong with taking other arts (cross training as it's called today). I have done so myself as well as most here have. But to look specifically for a school that boasts multiple arts and the (one) instructor is graded (highly in most cases) in all of them, beware! I would suggest schools that boast multiple arts but actually have more than one instructor which would suggest that they are concentrated on one art rather than many and you'll actually get better instruction via the full art rather than snip-its of the art.

Just two cents.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
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