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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 12907
Location: Owasso, OK
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
I agree with everything except maybe one.

I agree wholeheartedly with giving power to the CI's and taking it away from a politically motivated board.

It's still a risk!!

MatsuShinshii wrote:
However you have to really look at the checks and balances when it comes to promoting Kodansha grades. This could back fire and what I mean by that is simply... without oversight it is possible as with any organization that not all CI's agree with requirements. Maintaining a high degree of integrity in overseeing the upper echelon grades goes a long way into maintaining the integrity of the art itself. If one CI, lets say a Hachidan, promotes a Godan and has high expectations and another CI, again a Hachidan, promotes a Godan with lesser expectations and requirements you end up with degradation of the art.

I agree!! Checks and balances keep rank integrity pure to the Nth degree. I would never violate rank integrity because if I do, then my words are empty across the board. I'd be that oversight!! This is owe to Soke, Dai-Soke, and more importantly, the Student Body.

I believe in what Soke set up concerning rank integrity. By having all Testing Cycles approved by him/Dai-Soke/Hombu; guarantees that minimum level of integrity. Whereas, Soke made it where every CI had to submit each testing candidates Student Testing Records for inspection by the various departments, and then finally, approved by Soke/Dai-Soke/Kaicho.

MatsuShinshii wrote:
I do not so much have a problem with Yudansha grades being promoted at the School level providing that the instructor has sufficient grade and there is a board of at least three to maintain fairness, balance and integrity. But when it comes to the Kodansha grades (Godan to Kudan/Judan) an extra bit of checks and balances are required.

As it is now, it would be the same where there must be a minimum testing panel of three with the CI having that sufficient grade. The higher the Dan rank, the higher the standards must be without any ambiguity.

MatsuShinshii wrote:
This is an easy way to allow favoritism to creep in and ruin the intergity of the grade system within your art. An example would be, one CI has high grading and can promote to said grade. He thinks his kid deserves to be graded to the maximum grade he is allowed to promote to. Say he's a Kudan and he is allowed to promote to Nanadan or Hachidan (as in some arts). Now lets say the Kaicho years later retires and he himself retires and the organization is looking to promote the next Kaicho. Since he was promoted up the ranks, most likely faster than most and is now senior to all others his name is put in for Kaicho (Soke or whatever you utilize).

I wholeheartedly concur with this. This is an ugly truth to face because it happens, and it happens mostly with governing bodies who don't have those proper checks and balances already in place; rank integrity rapidly deteriorates.

MatsuShinshii wrote:
How is that maintaining the integrity of the art and it's instructors. Lets say you as Kaicho got word or realized this and your last decree was to promote someone of lesser grade than this Hachidan. Now the organization is in a war because some will feel that since he is senior he deserves it. Or name any number of scenarios. The point is without oversight outside of the Dojo level anything can and will happen.

This is what I meant by there's no way to avoid any and all politics. Soke designed an Oversight Committee, in the very early days of the Hombu, which he chaired, and I was fortunate enough to have been on that committee, once I was part of the Counsel of Regents, when I had earned my Godan, in which, I learned so much about how to establish and control rank integrity across the board. As part of that committee, we were drilled in an unknown amount of possibilities that the Oversight Committee might encounter. Nothing was considered far fetched and impossible. Recognizing that unscrupulous act whenever it occurs...then act appropriately immediately!!

MatsuShinshii wrote:
Might I suggest that the Kaicho/Kancho is present at all Kodansha promotions. That would at least give oversight and maintain integrity within the promotion process.

It's a great suggestion, one I had planned on already, in which that current practice will be carried on. I'd not deviate from that because it maintains that specific rank integrity as it should be.

MatsuShinshii wrote:
I'm a firm believer in one rule fits all. Requirements are requirements and not meant to be superseded for any reason. If they are maintained the end result is qualified, deserving recipients of their grades. Anything less and you have some that deserve and some that do not.

I wholeheartedly concur with that, as well!! I'd not ever turn rank integrity into what it isn't...cheap and meaningless!!

MatsuShinshii wrote:
Me personally, I like my association when it was ran by one instead of many. The reason, the same expectations and requirements across the board. No disagreements, no promoting your friends on that basis, no belts for bucks. Everyone lived by the same rules and no one got a leg up without earning it. One man oversees the future of the art and maintains it's integrity (of course this has it's flaws if that man is not a man of high integrity and moral fabric). Again I am all for promotions from Shodan to Yondan at the Dojo level providing the CI has a sufficient grade to promote but once you achieve the Kodansha grades it should have a greater oversight than just at the Dojo level. Even with in the Yudansha gradings I would feel that documentation would have to be somewhere in the mix in terms multiple instructors of sufficient grade to test or at the very least sending in a video of the recipients testing so that there is some small amount of oversight.

Originally our Hombu was ran by Soke, in which he was assisted by Kaicho. Soke ran the show!! Kaicho managed the show, but under the watchful eye of Soke; nothing occurred without Soke's explicit approval!!

I'd allow dojo's to promote up to Yondan on their own, but, as you've pointed out, Godan and above will have Kaicho and/or Kancho supervising the Testing panel, however, that panel would have no less than 7 sitting on that Testing panel. Not 3...not 5...but 7, and no less. Can't provide the 7, then no Testing Cycle whatsoever!!

I'd not allow video Testing Cycles because video can be altered. I want to witness the Testing Cycle LIVE!! This too enforces the rank integrity!!

MatsuShinshii wrote:
If it were me it would be Kaicho - student body - nothing else. But again that is just me.

This is me too!! I'm for that because the baiting of politics has to end. I'd run it just like I ran my dojo's...There's me, then my Student Body, and as rude as this might read...it'll be MY way, not our way, or the highway, and I'd make it so that that is how it's going to be. Someone doesn't like it, TOUGH, go somewhere else.

I believe I'm fair and consistent across the board, but I don't barter rank, nor do I barter my dojo, and I don't barter my integrity!!

MatsuShinshii wrote:
By the way love the white, brown, black. Could not agree more. But you know I would take it a step further and just have white, black. However knowing you teach children this would probably cause temper tantrums and mental melt downs on the Dojo floor.

I do, and have considered, to only have white and black; that intrigues me to no end. As far as the kids are concerned, as well as their parents/guardians/whomever else, they can take their whining and temper tantrums and mental meltdowns somewhere else...I WON'T HAVE IT!! No one in my dojo will ever assume that they've a position of authority that they don't possess...Not in my dojo...not now...not ever!!

Rules and regulations are what they are, and I never remember ever having to have ask whomever their advice and/or permission for anything...not in my dojo, and most assuredly so, NEVER ON MY FLOOR!!

Remember, I've entertained the idea, but I'm really not interested in starting my own governing body for the many reasons I've already stated on this thread. I don't have to be, and I don't want to be, in charge of any darn thing...I'm a student and I want to train.

Politics will rear their ugly heads up, and I'm fed up with them to the Nth degree!! Life was never ever like this when Soke and Dai-Soke were alive and large and in charge of EVERYTHING!!

I mean, do I carry a sign around that says...dump your garbage right on top of me...I like it?? No, I don't like it!! Overseeing the daily operation of the SKKA/Hombu is one thing, I was honored to have done so, but one drama after another, is more than enough. Again, they made the bed, now they can lie in it all they want. They got what they wanted, and now look, it's faltering in leaps and bounds. Why? Because they wanted to bring Iwao back!! Be careful what you wish for, because that what you've wish for will, and have, bite you on your backside.

Both the expected and unexpected deaths have occurred in the Hombu, and I tried my best to always put the Student Body before anything and everything and everyone, and to be a good Kaicho, but to no avail, one stupid selfish act after another has been dumped on me, and what I'm saying is this...I've had enough of it all...all I want to do is train.

If the time dictates that I need to return to the floor teaching, then maybe then, I'll open a dojo, and nothing else!!

If the SKKA goes belly up under the leadership of Iwao, I'll be sad for the Student Body, they're innocent in that, and them alone!!



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The Pred
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 315

Styles: Goju Ryu

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also agree with just having a kaicho and nothing else. Perhaps a vice kaicho to help you run things.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 12907
Location: Owasso, OK
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Pred wrote:
I also agree with just having a kaicho and nothing else. Perhaps a vice kaicho to help you run things.

Once my health improves, and it will, I'll seriously entertain the option to create my own governing body, far away from the SKKA, and with that, I believe that Kaicho, and MAYBE a Kancho as well, is the best way to go.

My choice for Kancho would be my highest ranking students, who's a Rokudan. Providing that the dojo I sold him is still in existence, and it was last year, the Student Body count would have a great boost because when I sold him my dojo, my Student Body count was 310.

I still have a small problem, though...No matter what I do and/or don't do, politics will creep in, even if it's only just a tad. I'm just so done with politics, I just can't stand them anymore!!



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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 1609
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you start making rules, people are going to feel slighted. When people feel slighted, they start commiserating with likeminded people who feel slighted too. They they start taking up sides. And the cycle begins.

I don't know much of anything about Seido Juku's rules nor politics of being a CI. As an outsider, it seems to be teach the curriculum however you want, kyu test however you want, and charge whatever you want. You'll be held accountable for your students' progress when they show up for yudansha testing at honbu by Kaicho. Or when Kaicho visits. Or when his son (Nidaime; second in line) or one of the 3 Hanshis test your students and/or watch them perform. Treat your students and everyone else with respect, and be honorable. Instill that standard in your students. Don't do that, and sayonara.

Maybe I'm way off.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 12907
Location: Owasso, OK
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
Once you start making rules, people are going to feel slighted. When people feel slighted, they start commiserating with likeminded people who feel slighted too. They they start taking up sides. And the cycle begins.

I don't know much of anything about Seido Juku's rules nor politics of being a CI. As an outsider, it seems to be teach the curriculum however you want, kyu test however you want, and charge whatever you want. You'll be held accountable for your students' progress when they show up for yudansha testing at honbu by Kaicho. Or when Kaicho visits. Or when his son (Nidaime; second in line) or one of the 3 Hanshis test your students and/or watch them perform. Treat your students and everyone else with respect, and be honorable. Instill that standard in your students. Don't do that, and sayonara.

Maybe I'm way off.

No, you're not way off; right on point!!

Respect begets respect; from the lowest rank to the highest rank!! Just because we're human beings, it doesn't mean that we know how to act like human beings!!





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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 12907
Location: Owasso, OK
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject: Kyuodan Dojo CLOSED!! Reply with quote

Having of relocated my family and I back to Owasso, OK, and having completely unpacked and made our home decorated the way we like it, I went to pay a unscheduled visit to my old dojo in Tulsa, OK.

I've discovered some disheartening thing or two. My old dojo, in its entirety has closed...it's gone. The building is still there, but where my dojo once was is out of business!! This happened just 5 months ago!!

I was shocked...stunned!!

Once the shock wore off just enough for me to think clear enough to wrap my head around the unexpected. I found out in one quick phone call to my most senior student, the person whom I sold my dojo/retail business to, as to the events that lead up to its closure.

Steve informed me that he had to close because the company he's worked at forever and a day, Chevron, transferred him to Mobile, AL; an offer that he just couldn't ignore.

He claims that he did all that he could do to save the business, with the very little time remaining before the transfer was effected. No one showed any interest to purchase the business, separate and/or together...NO ONE!!

The student body had no recourse whatsoever; left in the cold!! Because there was no dojo anymore, and even though they all tried to train on their own for a few months, they started to dwindle away in lumps, and then they just went their separate ways in time.

I blame myself!! I wasn't here to prevent it!! It seems to me that my intimate MA world is simply falling apart in droves around me. First we lost Soke, then we lost Dai-Soke, and ever since their passing's, one tragedy after another consumed us.

What was once formidable, isn't formidable any longer; their shell is the empty one of its once self.



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Last edited by sensei8 on Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:34 am; edited 2 times in total
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 1609
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Having of relocated my family and I back to Owasso, OK, and having completely unpacked and made our home decorated the way we like it, I went to pay a unscheduled visit to my old dojo in Tulsa, OK.

I've discovered some disheartening thing or two. My old dojo, in its entirety has closed...it's gone. The building is still there, but where my dojo once was is out of business!! This happened just 5 months ago!!

I was shocked...stunned!!

Once the shock wore off just enough for me to think clear enough to wrap my head around the unexpected. I found out in one quick phone call to my most senior student, the person whom I sold my dojo/retail business to, as to the events that lead up to its closure.

Steve informed me that he had to close because the company he's worked at forever and a day, Chevron, transferred him to Mobile, AL; an offer that he just couldn't ignore.

He claims that he did all that he could do to save the business, with the very little time remaining before the transfer was effected. No one showed any interest to purchase the business, separate and/or together...NO ONE!!

The student body had no recourse whatsoever; left in the cold!! Because there was no dojo anymore, and even though they all tried to train on their own for a few months, they started to dwindle away in lumps, and then they just went their separate ways in time.

I blame myself!! I wasn't here to prevent it!! It seems to me that my intimate MA world is simply falling apart in droves around me. First we lost Soke, then we lost Dai-Soke, and ever since their passing's, one tragedy after another consumed us.

What was once formidable, isn't formidable any longer; their shell is the empty one of its once self.



You can't be everywhere at once. And with your current health concerns, realistically speaking, what were you to do?

The only thing I can see you doing is getting in contact with the (former) students and letting them know you're back in town. Let them know once your health returns to normal, you're looking to re-open. At least if that's what you want.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 12907
Location: Owasso, OK
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Having of relocated my family and I back to Owasso, OK, and having completely unpacked and made our home decorated the way we like it, I went to pay a unscheduled visit to my old dojo in Tulsa, OK.

I've discovered some disheartening thing or two. My old dojo, in its entirety has closed...it's gone. The building is still there, but where my dojo once was is out of business!! This happened just 5 months ago!!

I was shocked...stunned!!

Once the shock wore off just enough for me to think clear enough to wrap my head around the unexpected. I found out in one quick phone call to my most senior student, the person whom I sold my dojo/retail business to, as to the events that lead up to its closure.

Steve informed me that he had to close because the company he's worked at forever and a day, Chevron, transferred him to Mobile, AL; an offer that he just couldn't ignore.

He claims that he did all that he could do to save the business, with the very little time remaining before the transfer was effected. No one showed any interest to purchase the business, separate and/or together...NO ONE!!

The student body had no recourse whatsoever; left in the cold!! Because there was no dojo anymore, and even though they all tried to train on their own for a few months, they started to dwindle away in lumps, and then they just went their separate ways in time.

I blame myself!! I wasn't here to prevent it!! It seems to me that my intimate MA world is simply falling apart in droves around me. First we lost Soke, then we lost Dai-Soke, and ever since their passing's, one tragedy after another consumed us.

What was once formidable, isn't formidable any longer; their shell is the empty one of its once self.



You can't be everywhere at once. And with your current health concerns, realistically speaking, what were you to do?

The only thing I can see you doing is getting in contact with the (former) students and letting them know you're back in town. Let them know once your health returns to normal, you're looking to re-open. At least if that's what you want.

I reached out to one of my students, who's a Godan, and he, in return, reached out to quite a number of my students in the hopes that we can get together for a reunion, so to speak.

A place...a time...was decided upon for a breakfast buffet.

The meeting was set!!

When I walked into where the breakfast was being held, I wept!! The sea and ocean of faces that was spread throughout the ballroom, was more than I could ever hope and dream of. When I sold my Kyuodan Dojo, my Student Body was 311. I was staring at, I found out later the exact count, 203 familiar faces. Which explains why they had rented one of the biggest ballrooms that this particular hotel had to offer. I was only expecting a very small band of students to show up.

I was welcomed with a quick standing ovation, as I was lead to stage center to address the throng that stood before me. These were MY students...every single one of them!!

I very briefly thanked them, and then I suggested that we first eat, and then we could talk about anything they wanted to get off their chest. I ate very little, then while the breakfast was still going strong, I walked about the room to each table to say 'hi' and shook each and everyone's hands, and the hugs were abound.

Having eat, it was time for some hard and honest truths to be made clear!! I was introduced once again, and then I was handed a microphone. Several of senior Students had microphones in hand in order that the Student Body could ask their most sincere and pointed questions of me.

We chatted over a number of things, nothing to specific, and then the moment came when I was asked point blank..."What are your plans!?!?"

For an hour I poured out my soul to them, and I explained quite a lot of personal and private things as far as my medical situation is concerned. My teaching future is brighter than it had been in a long time, and that I should be able to return to the floor just as soon as I have the Nuclear Stress Test. They seemed to relish in that!!

At the conclusion of that particular hour of Q&A, I was asked about what was happening with the SKKA. I simply told them what I knew, and explained to them that the future of the SKKA is, imho, in its last days. I kept the tone professional throughout this intense Q&A. I left my personal feelings as to the SKKA out of this Q&A because that wasn't the time, if that time will ever happen.

This was the time for me to be that consummate professional across the board. To be frank and honest with my answers to each of their concerns; they've earned that right from me.

With the SKKA concerns concluded, the remaining hours was over a wide range of concerns. However, the echo was rumbling...was I going to reopen, and if so, just how soon.

Finally around 1pm, we concluded our meeting!!

I've always placed the Student Body above my professional as well as personal needs; that's what must be done all of the time without exceptions.

They want to learn!!

I want to teach!!

So, just before the break of dawn, we assembled at that very same ballroom we had the day before to do one thing, and one thing only...WE TRAINED!! We trained for 4 and a half hours!! 1 and a half hours with my students under the age of 18; all ranks invited. 2 hours with my students over the age of 18; all ranks invited.

No, I didn't get permission from my Cardiologist or my PCP...I never asked. After all, it was Sunday...they were not in their offices. So, I taught anyway!!

I gauged myself carefully; I had my most senior students assist me; they were my, ahem, "dummies", so that I could explain the finer details and so that they could execute what I couldn't/shouldn't/afraid to over task myself.

We ended the training by running through all of the Kata's...all ages and all ranks were invited to attend...and attending they did!!

We all had a blast...yeah...I did too!! My wife understood, but still, my wife chewed me out for being on the floor WITHOUT explicit permission from the doctors!!





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Last edited by sensei8 on Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Pred
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 315

Styles: Goju Ryu

PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Having of relocated my family and I back to Owasso, OK, and having completely unpacked and made our home decorated the way we like it, I went to pay a unscheduled visit to my old dojo in Tulsa, OK.

I've discovered some disheartening thing or two. My old dojo, in its entirety has closed...it's gone. The building is still there, but where my dojo once was is out of business!! This happened just 5 months ago!!

I was shocked...stunned!!

Once the shock wore off just enough for me to think clear enough to wrap my head around the unexpected. I found out in one quick phone call to my most senior student, the person whom I sold my dojo/retail business to, as to the events that lead up to its closure.

Steve informed me that he had to close because the company he's worked at forever and a day, Chevron, transferred him to Mobile, AL; an offer that he just couldn't ignore.

He claims that he did all that he could do to save the business, with the very little time remaining before the transfer was effected. No one showed any interest to purchase the business, separate and/or together...NO ONE!!

The student body had no recourse whatsoever; left in the cold!! Because there was no dojo anymore, and even though they all tried to train on their own for a few months, they started to dwindle away in lumps, and then they just went their separate ways in time.

I blame myself!! I wasn't here to prevent it!! It seems to me that my intimate MA world is simply falling apart in droves around me. First we lost Soke, then we lost Dai-Soke, and ever since their passing's, one tragedy after another consumed us.

What was once formidable, isn't formidable any longer; their shell is the empty one of its once self.



You can't be everywhere at once. And with your current health concerns, realistically speaking, what were you to do?

The only thing I can see you doing is getting in contact with the (former) students and letting them know you're back in town. Let them know once your health returns to normal, you're looking to re-open. At least if that's what you want.

I reached out to one of my students, who's a Godan, and he, in return, reached out to quite a number of my students in the hopes that we can get together for a reunion, so to speak.

A place...a time...was decided upon for a breakfast buffet.

The meeting was set!!

When I walked into where the breakfast was being held, I wept!! The sea and ocean of faces that was spread throughout the ballroom, was more than I could ever hope and dream of. When I sold my Kyuodan Dojo, my Student Body was 311. I was staring at, I found out later the exact count, 203 familiar faces. Which explains why they had rented one of the biggest ballrooms that this particular hotel had to offer. I was only expecting a very small band of students to show up.

I was welcomed with a quick standing ovation, as I was lead to stage center to address the throng that stood before me. These were MY students...every single one of them!!

I very briefly thanked them, and then I suggested that we first eat, and then we could talk about anything they wanted to get off their chest. I ate very little, then while the breakfast was still going strong, I walked about the room to each table to say 'hi' and shook each and everyone's hands, and the hugs were abound.

Having eat, it was time for some hard and honest truths to be made clear!! I was introduced once again, and then I was handed a microphone. Several of senior Students had microphones in hand in order that the Student Body could ask their most sincere and pointed questions of me.

We chatted our a number of things, nothing to specific, and then the moment came when I was asked point blank..."What are your plans!?!?"

For an hour I poured out my soul to them, and I explained quite a lot of personal and private things as far as my medical situation is concerned. My teaching future is brighter than it had been in a long time, and that I should be able to return to the floor just as soon as I have the Nuclear Stress Test. They seemed to relish in that!!

At the conclusion of that particular hour of Q&A, I was asked about what was happening with the SKKA. I simply told them what I knew, and explained to them that the future of the SKKA is, imho, in its last days. I kept the tone professional throughout this intense Q&A. I left my personal feelings as to the SKKA out of this Q&A because that wasn't the time, if that time will ever happen.

This was the time for me to be that consummate professional across the board. To be frank and honest with my answers to each of their concerns; they've earned that right from me.

With the SKKA concerns concluded, the remaining hours was over a wide range of concerns. However, the echo was rumbling...was I going to reopen, and if so, just how soon.

Finally around 1pm, we concluded our meeting!!

I've always placed the Student Body above my professional as well as personal needs; that's what must be done all of the time without exceptions.

They want to learn!!

I want to teach!!

So, just before the break of dawn, we assembled at that very same ballroom we had the day before to do one thing, and one thing only...WE TRAINED!! We trained for 4 and a half hours!! 1 and a half hours with my students under the age of 18; all ranks invited. 2 hours with my students over the age of 18; all ranks invited.

No, I didn't get permission from my Cardiologist or my PCP...I never asked. After all, it was Sunday...they were not in their offices. So, I taught anyway!!

I gauged myself carefully; I had my most senior students assist me; they were my, ahem, "dummies", so that I could explain the finer details and so that they could execute what I couldn't/shouldn't/afraid to over task myself.

We ended the training by running through all of the Kata's...all ages and all ranks were invited to attend...and attending they did!!

We all had a blast...yeah...I did too!! My wife understood, but still, my wife chewed me out for being on the floor WITHOUT explicit permission from the doctors!!







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