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grapplerboy
White Belt
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 5:33 pm Post subject: Bodyscissors vs. The Guard |
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Hi everybody, I'm new in this forum.
I write you because I'd like to ask you the following grappling questions:
1)Why the Abu Dhabi, jiu-jitsu, sambo, shootfighting, pancrase and all other grapplers don't use the BODYSCISSORS(legs around body and squeeze) as submission instead of the mainly "defensive" jiu-jitsu's guard position"?. As far I know, the bodyscissors can be a very deadly and very effective submission hold if the grappler's legs are VERY strong. If it's so, it would be better to train the legs to squeeze the opponent's ribs or waist between the legs than just "wait in the guard for a submission". In fact, the bodyscissors hold (called Do-Jime in Judo) is banned from judo competions because it's very dangerous(possibility of breaking ribs, damage to internal organs, etc.). If it's a forbbiden technique is by any reason... Take a look at:
http://www.wvmat.com/welker/scissors.htm
I think that strong grapplers like Mark Keer, Mark Coleman or Bob Sapp have the leg strength to squeeze out many of their opponents in real fights with scissors...but they donīt use it. Why?
What's your opinion?
2)Can classical brazilian jiu-jitsu's passing the guard techniques can be useful to escape the bodyscissors? If it is so, how to escape a lateral and rear bodyscissors with a classical jiu-jitsu's guard pass?
If a opponent has a rear full nelson with his legs around the waist, he can to squeeze the ribs easily, and force a submission.
3)Have you applied or been trapped in a bodyscissors by a strong grappler or wrestler? It's possible get a submission with it? What do you think?
I think it is a interesting matter to discuss in this forum. Let me know your comments!
Best Regards. |
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JohnnyS
Green Belt
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 444
Location: Australia
Styles: BJJ, Shootfighting, TKD, Goju
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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It's a cheap move that won't work on someone with good abs or someone good and will only wear you out. Why not spend your time learning proper submissions rather than doing this?
I've had people try it on me and it was annoying, but nothing I was going to tap to.
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BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)
Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black Belt
TKD - Black Belt |
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Raiden
Yellow Belt
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 33
Styles: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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what JohnnyS said, it will generally not work and requires alot of energy to execute. Not worth it.
one more note...
comparing the guard to the scissors is like comparing apples to oranges. the guard is a defensive situation you go to when someone is attacking you. i don't see how you could execute a scissors move when someone has the upper hand which is usually the case when someone pulls guard.
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White Belt-Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu |
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Severe Matburn
Yellow Belt
Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 78
Styles: Team Snake Pit Submission Fighting (grappling and striking)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:40 am Post subject: |
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I've used it before, but itz only worked on weak, generally untrained guys. Other than that I've tried it on others but it doesn't tap them out, juss pretty much annoy them. I've had it done on me, even sum1 bigger than me and it was definately nothin i would ever tap to. But using it would prolly keep ur opponent from passing your guard for a lil bit. But it takes too much energy and you cannot sustain a strong grip for long.
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"razor elbows, killer knees, iron fists and monster kicks"
"Nice punch!!!, now let's see how well you punch with a broken arm" |
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Cyph
Yellow Belt
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I think it's similar to the can opener.. ? |
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Neil
Orange Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 176
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 10:28 am Post subject: |
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What? Then scissors is deadly! A few months ago we where doing grappling we where he to go from one hold to another, each time trying to get out of the others and apply your own. I was doing great dispite being 15 and 5'7 facing someone around 6 ft and about 30 or so. But when he got be in a bodyscissors it really hurt. I couldn't get them off, the only way ig out out of that was by grabbing his bulls.
Personally I would have prefered being in between the thighs of a girl, have any of you girls here applied any type of scissors to men and did it work, this is from a combat effective perspective of course. 
Neil |
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Mr Heel Hook
Yellow Belt
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 95
Location: Pepperell MA
Styles: Gracie Jiu jitsu
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Body scissors...heh...
_________________
"A deer admires a lion. But all the members of our family are lions. So it doesn't matter which lion I admire. "
-Rener Gracie- |
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Red J
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 2278
Location: WPB, FL
Styles: Shaolin Kempo Sandan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnnyS wrote: |
I've had people try it on me and it was annoying, but nothing I was going to tap to. |
ditto
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I had to lose my mind to come to my senses. |
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Anzie
Yellow Belt
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 79
Location: Oslo, Norway, Europe.
Styles: Shootfigthing
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:00 am Post subject: |
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If you can get your elbows on the inside of his thighs and push, I promise you he'll release his hold 
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Grappling enthusiast!
Shootfighting as well. |
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Tibby
Purple Belt
Joined: 04 Jun 2003
Posts: 597
Location: Jacksonville, Tx
Styles: JuJutsu(Judo), Isshinryu Karate, Boxing, Fencing
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Things I can do when you put me in the Scissors:
1. Use you leverage you are giving me to choke you
2. Get a little ground-and-pound in
3. Put you up and drop out hard on your back, and maybe your head or neck. Not only will it hurt, but in Judo, that will give me a point
4. Stand up, turn around, and pull the classic Boston crab.
5. Put pressure on the groin
6. Put pressure on the abs
7. Put pressure on your legs
8. Because you have no legs to stabilize you, I can roll you over, sling yo around, and/or do any number of things.
My 2 cents. |
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