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shukokai2000
Green Belt
Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 436
Location: manchester ENGLAND
Styles: shukokai shito-ryu ... boxing/kick boxing
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 Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:59 am Post subject: |
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I took me 12 years before i started teaching, not 12 months ..
are we loosing the true value of karate with these money orienated guys |
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DeeBoy
Yellow Belt
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ashworth wrote: |
| Also what may make a difference to ability carrying on from the last post, If someone has done a previous style before for a few years. just thought I'd throw in extra |
I agree ashworth. i have a friend who has a Black belt in another style and has started training in GKR. when they start sparring my friend is always getting in trouble for using techniques that are not part of the system. they have also asked him to start teaching the kids classes because he is showing SKILLS of becoming a good Black belt. with this he now gets to train in an instructors class.
he has worked with some people that are graded higher than him, that have an ego problem. so doing what hes trained to do, he throws different attacks to them and gives it back to them.
I know i strayed off track a little but in the end, my friend now teaches GKR with 7 months of training behind him, but luckely has trained for 5 years prior.
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'The key to immortality is to live a life worth remembering' |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| DeeBoy wrote: |
| ashworth wrote: |
| Also what may make a difference to ability carrying on from the last post, If someone has done a previous style before for a few years. just thought I'd throw in extra |
I agree ashworth. i have a friend who has a Black belt in another style and has started training in GKR. when they start sparring my friend is always getting in trouble for using techniques that are not part of the system. they have also asked him to start teaching the kids classes because he is showing SKILLS of becoming a good Black belt. with this he now gets to train in an instructors class.
he has worked with some people that are graded higher than him, that have an ego problem. so doing what hes trained to do, he throws different attacks to them and gives it back to them.
I know i strayed off track a little but in the end, my friend now teaches GKR with 7 months of training behind him, but luckely has trained for 5 years prior. |
I still don't think this is common practice in other styles.
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www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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Elky
Orange Belt
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 225
Styles: Shotokan Karate
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| DeeBoy wrote: |
| ashworth wrote: |
| Also what may make a difference to ability carrying on from the last post, If someone has done a previous style before for a few years. just thought I'd throw in extra |
I agree ashworth. i have a friend who has a Black belt in another style and has started training in GKR. when they start sparring my friend is always getting in trouble for using techniques that are not part of the system. they have also asked him to start teaching the kids classes because he is showing SKILLS of becoming a good Black belt. with this he now gets to train in an instructors class.
he has worked with some people that are graded higher than him, that have an ego problem. so doing what hes trained to do, he throws different attacks to them and gives it back to them.
I know i strayed off track a little but in the end, my friend now teaches GKR with 7 months of training behind him, but luckely has trained for 5 years prior. |
Five years isn't a lot in martial arts terms. Most people are only just getting their black belt by that point. |
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chillindan
Yellow Belt
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 65
Location: UK
Styles: GKR
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Just on a slightly different tack, I wondered where everyone stands on this:
If the main gripe people have about the GKR style (As opposed to the marketing methods) is that it is no-contact sparring why is semi-contact any better? Surely you only get experience of how to punch/kick properly if you are following through and actually landing the punch kick?
People on this forum have made comments like 'you fight as you train', if this is the case then semi-contact is barely better in this regard.
Surely if I practice landing punches/kicks on a bag I am gaining the ability to land a powerful punch/kick in much the same way as many semi-contact styles practice bag work. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| chillindan wrote: |
| If the main gripe people have about the GKR style (As opposed to the marketing methods) is that it is no-contact sparring why is semi-contact any better? Surely you only get experience of how to punch/kick properly if you are following through and actually landing the punch kick? |
Well, it sounds like the other main gripe is the "instructor's belt." Aside from that, training to make contact with a person and with a bag are two different things. Your distance will be off, and the idea of blocking and countering will not be fully honed when you don't have to worry about getting hit.
| chillindan wrote: |
| People on this forum have made comments like 'you fight as you train', if this is the case then semi-contact is barely better in this regard. |
It is still better. Even when boxers spar, they aren't out to knock out the training partner. Although they aren't fighting at quite full speed, they are still recognizing contact, and dealing with it. Therefore, since they do know how to make contact, and deal with it, they are better adapted to it when they step into the ring.
| chillindan wrote: |
| Surely if I practice landing punches/kicks on a bag I am gaining the ability to land a powerful punch/kick in much the same way as many semi-contact styles practice bag work. |
You are learning to hit an inanimate object, that will not counter, move, or try to hit you as you hit it. Bag training is important, don't get me wrong. It builds speed, power, stamina, etc. However, it is not a substitute for sparring with a partner.
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www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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Mike Flanagan
Yellow Belt
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 80
Location: leeds, UK
Styles: Shinseido Shorin Ryu
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| chillindan wrote: |
| If the main gripe people have about the GKR style (As opposed to the marketing methods) is that it is no-contact sparring why is semi-contact any better? Surely you only get experience of how to punch/kick properly if you are following through and actually landing the punch kick? |
Its by no means my only gripe. However, focus on this particular issue....
Impact training of some sort (eg. bag/pad work, makiwara etc.) is an absolute MUST in karate training. Without it you're karate techniques can only lack power. However, you don't want to be continually bashing your training partners.
Karate should therefore (IMO) contain a variety of different training drills, some with partners some solo. Any one drill should enable the student to work on specific skill(s), building good, appropriate habits. Any one drill also has a potential disadvantage in that it can build bad habits. No-contact sparring, for example, if over-emphasised will teach students not to actually make contact with the target. But semi-contact and even full-contact can build habits, for example limiting participants to a small set of techniques in order to ensure reasonably safe practice. For this very reason I'm not a big fan of any of the standard 'striking only' competitive formats. Each can provide valuable lessons but each certainly can ingrain habits that are definitely not appropriate for self-defence.
So the answer is to vary your training appropriately, working on a variety of different drills and not focussing on any one of them too much.
Mike
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Practical Karate for Self-Defence |
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chillindan
Yellow Belt
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 65
Location: UK
Styles: GKR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:07 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your comments. I am trying to make a decision about where I take my karate from here. I enjoy my training at the GKR dojo, I like the atmosphere, I like the people, I also like the kihon and kata we do. I enjoy the sparring but I can see that it is limited in its potential use. In order to counter that I have started doing some bag work in my own time in addition to strength work. I am hoping that this will improve my kicking/striking power and accuracy.
As an aside, I am not sure how true the no-contact aspect is anyway. I have seen the lower kyu grades in our class periodically make contact when sparring. I have also heard that at many GKR tournaments this is also the case, and far from discouraging contact the judges in many cases award the point for it.
I wonder whether the no-contact thing is just enforced with the higher kyu's to encourage parents to bring their children and also so that people do not leave because they got punched/kicked during kumite?
Comments.... |
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Mike Flanagan
Yellow Belt
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 80
Location: leeds, UK
Styles: Shinseido Shorin Ryu
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| chillindan wrote: |
| Thanks for your comments. I am trying to make a decision about where I take my karate from here. I enjoy my training at the GKR dojo, I like the atmosphere, I like the people, I also like the kihon and kata we do. I enjoy the sparring but I can see that it is limited in its potential use. In order to counter that I have started doing some bag work in my own time in addition to strength work. I am hoping that this will improve my kicking/striking power and accuracy. |
Take it easy on the bagwork to begin with, especially if you start to experiment with hooks and uppercuts. Just build up the intensity nice and gradually over a series of months. Rushing it can just cause unnecessary injury.
| Quote: |
| As an aside, I am not sure how true the no-contact aspect is anyway. I have seen the lower kyu grades in our class periodically make contact when sparring. I have also heard that at many GKR tournaments this is also the case, and far from discouraging contact the judges in many cases award the point for it. |
The no-contact issue is quite peculiar with regard to GKR I think.
On the one hand you’ve got a complete lack of bag/padwork within the syllabus. In the UK at least, any teachers that do introduce it into GKR classes are doing so off their own back and contrary to the instructions of their regional managers. It seems fairly apparent to me why GKR take this approach - pads cost money and teaching people to hit them properly and safely requires a degree of skill and understanding that would be beyond the vast majority of kyu grade instructors (or even dan grades who haven’t done it themselves).
On the other hand you’ve got the sparring, which is theoretically no-contact. However, from the discussions I’ve had with a number of GKR students its apparent that in many GKR dojos there is a significant risk of injury during sparring, unacceptably high in some cases. I know of a woman in her 50’s who had ribs cracked in ‘no-contact’ sparring by an over-enthusiastic kyu grade instructor. Not an isolated incident either. The problem seems to me to be largely due to a complete lack of controlled partner drills. Again, like the padwork, such drills are not part of the standard syllabus. So students mostly do solo basics, kata then free sparring. Its no wonder that they can’t control their distancing when it comes to sparring.
There are many drills you could do, some formal some less so. But even the most artificial, formal drills would teach students something about distancing. Without this training students are simply not sufficiently prepared to practice free sparring.
Mike
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Practical Karate for Self-Defence |
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chillindan
Yellow Belt
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 65
Location: UK
Styles: GKR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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There are many drills you could do, some formal some less so. But even the most artificial, formal drills would teach students something about distancing. Without this training students are simply not sufficiently prepared to practice free sparring.
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When I first started in the summer we did some formal strikes, blocks and kick combinations. So that one student would strike whilst the other would block followed by a reversal of this situation.
I found this to be really useful as although it is false and artificial it really helped me with applying my blocks to an actual strike etc. Or trying to punch an opponant as opposed to nothing.
Is this the kind of prearranged formal combinations you are refering to? |
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on the post.
