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Sim
White Belt
Joined: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 12
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jow Ga Kuen and Wing Chun
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 Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:57 pm Post subject: Jason Delucia’s Five Animals |
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For those who don’t know, Jason Delucia is a fighter from the UFC as well as Pancrase who is supposedly a five animal kung fu stylist. Being a kung fu stylist myself, I went to his website to get more info on his martial arts background. I was rather disappointed when I couldn’t find anything that even resembled the five animal form. The five animal form exists in the style I study since Jow Gar is 1/3 Hung Gar, so I know what the five animal techniques look like.
Another point I should make is that the Five Animals form is just that, a form, not a system. Examples of styles with the five animal set are Hung Gar, Fut Gar, Shao Lin Quan and Kempo. But I see no mention of any system like that on his site. What was even more confusing is his five animals are the dragon, snake, crane, tiger and mantis. Every five animal form I know of includes the leopard, not the mantis. In fact the praying mantis is a separate style altogether.
He shows the techniques for the respective animals, but the techniques he shows are all actually jujutsu and NHB techniques. And the positions and stances he shows with the black and white pics don’t look anything like the five animals of Shaolin Kung Fu, or any kung fu style for that matter. It appears the only thing he teaches is Jujutsu and Aikido, why doesn’t he teach the five animals?
Here is a link to what I am writing about. For those of you that also practice a system with the five animals form, please give your thoughts and opinions.
http://www.jasondelucia.com/kungfu.htm |
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Drunken Monkey
Black Belt
Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 3559
Location: bar italia
Styles: white chocolate profiteroles and natas....
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:11 am Post subject: |
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because if he wins the chinese martial art tag is going to be 'worth' more...
'traditional' styles especially of chinese origin have been noticeably absent from these events and when ever they show, they (especially for you) tend to lose.
imagine the publicity/hype that can be gained from winning using a traditional martial art tag?
before anyone snaps at me, i am not saying that this guy IS doing this.
it is just my thoughts.
kinda like greg rusedski (the canadian) representing great britain in tennis...
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post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are.
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Last edited by Drunken Monkey on Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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SevenStar
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 2631
Location: TN
Styles: bjj, judo, shuai chiao, muay thai
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:40 am Post subject: |
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I don't think it's that - I think he's claiming his biggest influences. It's no secret that he went to the gracie academy to challenge them and got tooled. He then began to rain under them, and that's when he started fighting. BJJ has definitely been one of his biggest influences, and he's probably been doing some MT since then also.
Also, you said that the techniques he showed pics of for the animals were grappling techniques - It could be possbile that he adapted his 5 animals for the ring. (I haven't looked at his site yet)
However, my friend said that he heard delucia abandoned his kung fu training when he started fighting. That would be one explanation. |
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Sim
White Belt
Joined: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 12
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jow Ga Kuen and Wing Chun
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, I may not know that much about the UFC (though I love Pride, K1 and San Da) but I do know a lot about kung fu styles, especially Shao Lin Quan. I know there is no such thing as a five animals set with mantis being one of the animals. I think Drunken Monkey is on the right track. I’m starting to think he is a Jujutsu/Aikido stylist that labeled himself as Kung Fu. Shaolin San Shou is very much a stand up art with very little emphasis on ground fighting yet in his UFC pics he is shown taking guys to the ground and using Jujutsu. Well, if he wanted to pretend he is a kung fu stylist he could have at least got the five animals right. BTW its Dragon, Tiger, Leopard, Snake and Crane.
If what I suspect is true, it also means Shaolin Kung Fu was never represented in the UFC. For kung fu to be properly represented they would have to get someone like Shawn Liu or even Cung Le. Though Cung Le does not practice traditional forms or weapons like Shawn Liu, he did train under him, learning the core fighting art of Shaolin which is San Shou. Here is a link regarding this
http://www.liuinstitute.com/
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Also, you said that the techniques he showed pics of for the animals were grappling techniques - It could be possbile that he adapted his 5 animals for the ring. (I haven't looked at his site yet)
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I don’t see how this could be done. The five animal techniques are distinguished from each other by the formation of the hand. The tiger refers to techniques that resemble a tiger’s claw. The claw hand is a strike that pulls, twists or rakes upon impact. Targets for this are the eyes, throat, groin, skin, muscles and wrists. The snake refers to techniques that use the finger tips to poke and jab soft targets. The crane is similar to the snake but can be used for more angular attacks. The leopard involves a punch that resembles a cat’s paw. In this technique the fore knuckles are used to jab areas such as the ribs. My point being that none of these techniques can really be “converted” into Jujutsu style grappling. The more and more I think about it, the more he just seems like a Jujutsu stylist that has grouped his techniques into five animals. This doesn’t make what he does kung fu in any way, just a big rip off of it. |
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jmd161
Orange Belt
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 105
Location: Brooklyn,NY
Styles: Hak Fu Mun (Black Tiger) Swai Jiao
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Drunken Monkey wrote: |
'traditional' styles especially of chinese origin have been noticeably absent from these events and when ever they show, they lose.
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Where did you get that garbage from?
"O" Onassis from kwoon.com not only fought but won in the UFC.He's a Hung Gar stylist to be more exact.
The thing is that style in the UFC does'nt really matter. But MMA and Bjj ppl always want you to think that TCMA does'nt do well against them.It's not true.MMA and Bjj are not new like most ppl want to think.Most are just as old if not older than most kung fu styles.It's a circle.
Everything goes in circles.Now MMA and Bjj are the new big thing on the block.A few yrs ago it was Gracie this gracie that.Now you hear MMA this MMa that.It goes that way forever.Something else will com back and start the circle again soon.
jeff 
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The Basics Are The Hidden Secret To Kung Fu Master The Basics. |
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jmd161
Orange Belt
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 105
Location: Brooklyn,NY
Styles: Hak Fu Mun (Black Tiger) Swai Jiao
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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Sim,
You have to understand that there are over 1000 different styles of kung fu.Yes the most common five animals are Tiger,Crane,Snake,Leopard,and Dragon.But it is possiable for Mantis to be one of the five in other styles.
In Black Tiger we have Tiger,Crane,Snake,Leopard,Dragon,Monkey,Horse,Elephant,Lion,and Eagle.So it's very easy for another style to have different main animals.
jeff
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The Basics Are The Hidden Secret To Kung Fu Master The Basics. |
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Drunken Monkey
Black Belt
Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 3559
Location: bar italia
Styles: white chocolate profiteroles and natas....
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:34 am Post subject: |
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so out of all of the fighters that have participated, you can name ONE.
not exactly a lot is it...?
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post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are.
"When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." |
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jmd161
Orange Belt
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 105
Location: Brooklyn,NY
Styles: Hak Fu Mun (Black Tiger) Swai Jiao
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:53 am Post subject: |
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HA HA HA HA
I love people like you! 
You claim that all CMA people loose in the UFC. I show otherwise and now you want to say all you can name is one.All i had to name was one to prove you wrong.
Right?....... 
jeff
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The Basics Are The Hidden Secret To Kung Fu Master The Basics. |
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Drunken Monkey
Black Belt
Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 3559
Location: bar italia
Styles: white chocolate profiteroles and natas....
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:14 am Post subject: |
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did i say that ALL cma who go in lose?
i made a general statement.
you, my friend, have to get that bitter-stick out of your behind.
as for the five animals.
this is a famous set that features in (and indeed is derived from) shaolin.
both hung gar and choy li fut have a five animals form.
there is, if you like only ONE set of five animals.
seeing as mantis isn't even a traditional shaolin form, i find it hard to believe that it features as part of its five animals form.
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post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are.
"When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." |
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jmd161
Orange Belt
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 105
Location: Brooklyn,NY
Styles: Hak Fu Mun (Black Tiger) Swai Jiao
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:59 am Post subject: |
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did i say that ALL cma who go in lose?
i made a general statement. |
Well you tell me here is your exact words.
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| 'traditional' styles especially of chinese origin have been noticeably absent from these events and when ever they show, they lose. |
Now i underlined your words.That says that Traditional arts especially those of chinese origin rarely show up to these events.And lose whenever they do show up to fight.So i guess you did say that all TCMA stylist lose.
I guess you need to make sure you're saying what you're thinking when you type your words.
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| you, my friend, have to get that bitter-stick out of your behind. |
You know i won't even stoop to that level.I did not attack you personally.I only said where did you get that garbage? Meaning that that was not truth about TCMA loosing.I did not say anything about you.
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as for the five animals.
this is a famous set that features in (and indeed is derived from) shaolin.
both hung gar and choy li fut have a five animals form.
there is, if you like only ONE set of five animals.
seeing as mantis isn't even a traditional shaolin form, i find it hard to believe that it features as part of its five animals form. |
You did not see me type anything about Shaolin's five Animals did you?
What i said was there are over 1000 different styles of kung fu.It can easily be an animal in another style of kung fu.I don't need anyone to tell me about Shaolin Five Animals seeing that i've studied both Northern and Southern Shaolin styles for the last 18 yrs.In case you were'nt aware my current style is Sil Lum Hak Fu Muhn (Shaolin Black Tiger) a Southern Shaolin style. I also studied Bak Sil Lum (Northern Shaolin Longfist).
I've also studied Cheung Kune Pai (Sung Style Southern Lonfist) ~bka~ Tai Tzu's Chang Chuan.So i know in different styles and different ways the five animals are used in other styles.
jeff
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The Basics Are The Hidden Secret To Kung Fu Master The Basics. |
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on the post.
