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ChangWuJi
Orange Belt
Joined: 23 Jul 2001
Posts: 144
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YODA
Black Belt
Joined: 25 Jan 2002
Posts: 1033
Location: England (int'north west)
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 Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2002 1:17 am Post subject: |
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This was an awesome fight - I've had the tape for some years.
People who dis Helio for losing the fight and thus say BJJ is inferior to Judo. They should take into consideration the fact that he was vastly outweighed & that Kimura later invited Helio to Japan to teach at the Budokan - must have thought he had something to offer?
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YODA
2nd Degree Black Belt : Doce Pares Eskrima www.docepares.co.uk
Qualified Instructor : JKD Concepts www.jkdc.co.uk
Qualified Fitness Instructor (Weights, CV, Circuit, Kinesiology) |
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Sho-ju
Red Belt
Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 774
Location: Canada
Styles: Karate, judo and jujitsu.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| YODA wrote: |
This was an awesome fight - I've had the tape for some years.
People who dis Helio for losing the fight and thus say BJJ is inferior to Judo. They should take into consideration the fact that he was vastly outweighed & that Kimura later invited Helio to Japan to teach at the Budokan - must have thought he had something to offer?
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My thoughts exactly, Helio was also older then Kumura. It looked similar to Yoshida vs. Royce (Yoshida won by a much too early ref stoppage) but the throw was nice and Yoshida had good control. |
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2279
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Boxing,Lars Wallin BJJ, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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I don't people should diss BJJ and say Judo is better, but if someone won Gracie with Judo then that fighter is really good, old, young, or heavier, doesn't matter. But I don't see people running out and taking up Judo all of a sudden. BJJ is closer to Judo than it is to Jujitsu anyway so it was a good match.
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"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Lock em out or Knock em out" |
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BJJ-Dober
White Belt
Joined: 07 Jun 2003
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Kimura also stated that if Helio lasted more than 3 minutes he should declare himself the winner, he lasted 13. Not to say Helio won the fight but Im sure Kimura was surprised |
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2279
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Boxing,Lars Wallin BJJ, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 3:27 am Post subject: |
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BJJ is popular, doesn't mean it is the end all answer to fighting. Yeah, it's effective in the ring, that is wear it has been displayed. I think that Judo is just as effective, and it truely depends on the fighter. The Style is secondary to the fighter.
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"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Lock em out or Knock em out" |
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TJS
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1843
Styles: boxing, Thai boxing, BJJ,
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| BJJ is popular, doesn't mean it is the end all answer to fighting |
definetly not but I think it is one of the more proven looking at whats out there.
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| Yeah, it's effective in the ring, that is wear it has been displayed |
so when you step out of the ring it looses it's effectiveness? what about stlyes that cant win IN a ring with limited rules? if it dosent work in a simple 1 vs 1 competition why would it work better else where? to me the ring is a better test than anything else or than real fighting..whitch isint practicaal as a means of testing..
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| I think that Judo is just as effective |
Judo has never had the succes of BJJ, Lots of Judoka have come and gone int he UFC..sure some did well but most did not do outstanding..
There was a highly decorated olympic judoka in UFC 3 who was unable to get past Shamrock in the first round.
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| and it truely depends on the fighter |
I'll ask again..if was all on fighter then Why did Judo not have much succes..plenty tried...are you going to sit here and tell me that somehow ALL of the judoka that entereed were less talented then the wrestlers and BJJ ist..look at the big picture.
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| The Style is secondary to the fighter |
Ultimatly it comes down to the fighter..a stlye can only give yout he tools...some stlyes just do a better job than otehrs imo. |
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Sho-ju
Red Belt
Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 774
Location: Canada
Styles: Karate, judo and jujitsu.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Judo has never had the succes of BJJ, Lots of Judoka have come and gone int he UFC..sure some did well but most did not do outstanding..
There was a highly decorated olympic judoka in UFC 3 who was unable to get past Shamrock in the first round. |
Don Frye, Yoshida, Fedor (the current #1 fighter in Pride) Newton, Trigg, Takase (who just subed a top Anderson Silva), Herring (he Remco his grappling coach is a judoka), etc. Almost all the Japanese fighters have done judo. It's a good base for grappling.
Christophe Leninger was not an olympic level judoka but a national judo champ. In UFC 13 Guy Mezger said he was one of the hardest guys he ever fought. Not to mention he was in his late 30's....
Judo (IMO) is better for the street (wrestling as well) because it forces you to be aggressive and stay on up on top/on your feet.
Sho-judo |
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TJS
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1843
Styles: boxing, Thai boxing, BJJ,
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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sure most of the fighters in the UFC have also done TKD or karate at one point..does that mean thats what they fight like? or use it?
Don Frye Uses wrestling and boxing for the most part.
Yoshida is a judoka and is impressive from what i have seen.
Newton definetly fights like a Jiu jitsu fighter
I was under the impression Fedor had a background in Sambo..but I dont know much about him.
Im not saying judo is not effective..i actually think it is very effective on the street because of the throws..but I think Wrestling has better takedowns and Jiu jitsu has better submissions. |
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Sho-ju
Red Belt
Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 774
Location: Canada
Styles: Karate, judo and jujitsu.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| TJS wrote: |
Newton definetly fights like a Jiu jitsu fighter
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When we train Judo it looks the same as bjj. (the ground work that is) Newton uses Judo all the time, in almost all his fights you can see him going for throws. Judo is stand up jiujitsu...that's the only point I'm trying to make. In Russia the judo looks more like sambo because they cross train in both. Ya, I guess Fedor is more wrestling/sambo. I don't think you'll find many point karate guys out amoung the top mma guys at all. Most of the new blood have Boxing/kickboxing or wrestling/sub fighting backgrounds now.
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on the post.
