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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2359
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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 Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Personally I discuss w/ the student or family what what they can do in terms of payment.
If parents got laid off from work or it is due various extraneous reasons. I generally allow the student to train for free, as I don't want them to go into financial hardship just to pay tuition for lessons.
As i'd rather them have enough meals each month, over me being paid $100 for them to come.
And when they get back on their feet, and they offered to pay the back debt; i'd tell them to hold onto it and use it on the family.
But all of this would be kept strictly between me and the family. No other student or family needs to get involved with their situation.
What I'd like to do one day, is open an account where people are able to donate funds for those who are in need. And those funds can go towards uniforms, belts, memberships, equipment or even food. But these donations would be anonymous.
So that no child can go hungry because mum and dad couldn't afford a meal. |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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I would rather cut the costs than to loose a worthy student. Why not work something out with the student. Labor costs nothing. Have them clean the dojo, work on fixing things up (if they have a trade maybe you can use this to fix or install something, it has a value), have them help with other classes or to assist in examples (make them your Uke for other classes).
I'm sure there are a million other things that come to mind but the point is to help them and to allow them to contribute so they feel like they are not a charity case. If they are a good student and good person they will not want something for free. I'm sure there are ways to make this work for both parties and for you to keep a good student.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
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username19853
Blue Belt
Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 261
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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So I’ve dealt with this twice (as a student).
The first time, I was heavily into Brazilian jiu jitsu. I had been off and on in training for years, mostly due to money, poor time management or moving around. I remember I had really missed training, called up my original professor and asked if there was anything he could do. I was very respectful. His response “no, I don’t do that. All of my students will be charged the same.” He was very blunt, didn’t want to hear anything else from me, so I thanked him for his time and that was it.
The second time, with my current Sensei, he was 100% willing to work with me in whatever way he could. He knows I support myself and don’t make very much, so he’s always offering me deals and telling me “no rush” on payments. I try to repay him by always treating him with the respect he deserves, giving my all during class and always cleaning up after class.
I always pay him early or on time if possible. I love this man and feel like I’ll never be able to pay him back for everything that he’s done for me!
I hope having the perspective from a student helps this thread in some way! Hoping to open up my own dojo in the future. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Each instructor will have a different approach to this. For a student that is truly dedicated, I would try to find some arrangement to help them out, and also try to keep that between me and the family. |
I agree.
If I might add another question based on your comment; I agree that it definitely needs to be kept between you and the student for obvious reasons, but what if it gets out? Or another twist - what if they overcome their financial difficulties and just never tell you?
More or less take advantage of the situation and your good nature.
More importantly what would you do? Raise their fee's back up? Talk to them about it? Demand back pay?
Don't get me wrong I agree with your statement and have done this myself. However once you open Pandora's box it's hard to close it as you set a precedence from that point forward.
Just interested in what you guys and gals would do should you decide to help a student out and they either tell others (creating a chain effect in your student body) or if they manage to get out of their jam and just never offer to pay the full tuition (essentially taking advantage of the situation and your kindness).
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Those are good points, and I didn't think about them prior to you bringing them up.
In a situation like that, I think its important to re-evaluate the situation perhaps on a yearly basis. As the student becomes older, and gets old enough to start making some money, it should be re-evaluated, too. Keep an open dialogue between the parents and the student, and keep a pulse on the situation.
Safety nets should only be temporary.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16439
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Just because ones a human being, it doesn't mean one knows how to act like a human being!!
If a student of mine is facing financial difficulties, then I'll do all that I can to help them, including providing them free lessons, for as long as they warrant it.
I don't do it to get a pat on my back. I do it because it's the right thing to do.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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KC1996
White Belt
Joined: 03 Nov 2016
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="MatsuShinshii"]
If I might add another question based on your comment; I agree that it definitely needs to be kept between you and the student for obvious reasons, but what if it gets out? Or another twist - what if they overcome their financial difficulties and just never tell you?
More or less take advantage of the situation and your good nature.
More importantly what would you do? Raise their fee's back up? Talk to them about it? Demand back pay?
Don't get me wrong I agree with your statement and have done this myself. However once you open Pandora's box it's hard to close it as you set a precedence from that point forward.
Just interested in what you guys and gals would do should you decide to help a student out and they either tell others (creating a chain effect in your student body) or if they manage to get out of their jam and just never offer to pay the full tuition (essentially taking advantage of the situation and your kindness).[/quote]
MatsuShinshi raises some of the points I've also been thinking about. I want to be fair to all of my students and excusing one from having to pay their dues raises the question of fairness to all of them. As long as the student in question keeps our arrangement to themselves it's one thing, but it's a different story if they communicate the arrangement to the other members of the club. Then I have to deal with the perception of favoritism towards one member while the others are paying their full dues....even if the dues are low and more than affordable. This is a situation I hate being placed in.
Generally though I do try to work with members who find themseleves in a financial crunch. |
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| KC1996 wrote: |
| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
If I might add another question based on your comment; I agree that it definitely needs to be kept between you and the student for obvious reasons, but what if it gets out? Or another twist - what if they overcome their financial difficulties and just never tell you?
More or less take advantage of the situation and your good nature.
More importantly what would you do? Raise their fee's back up? Talk to them about it? Demand back pay?
Don't get me wrong I agree with your statement and have done this myself. However once you open Pandora's box it's hard to close it as you set a precedence from that point forward.
Just interested in what you guys and gals would do should you decide to help a student out and they either tell others (creating a chain effect in your student body) or if they manage to get out of their jam and just never offer to pay the full tuition (essentially taking advantage of the situation and your kindness). |
MatsuShinshi raises some of the points I've also been thinking about. I want to be fair to all of my students and excusing one from having to pay their dues raises the question of fairness to all of them. As long as the student in question keeps our arrangement to themselves it's one thing, but it's a different story if they communicate the arrangement to the other members of the club. Then I have to deal with the perception of favoritism towards one member while the others are paying their full dues....even if the dues are low and more than affordable. This is a situation I hate being placed in.
Generally though I do try to work with members who find themseleves in a financial crunch. |
Ultimately, I don't thinks this should be that big of a concern. For the most part, asking for help is something that a lot of people struggle to do. More often than not, those who ask for help will take what they need for as long as needed. Once they're in a better position, they will likely stop asking for the assistance. Many of them will probably try to return the favor, or "repay the debt." While there are definitely folks out there who will take advantage of others whenever they can, those people are a very small minority.
_________________
5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do
(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo) |
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on the post.
