Why are WKF karatekas so much faster in kumite than JKA?

Prototype · Green Belt

There isn't much dispute that modern WKF competitors are lightening fast, second to none. My question is why JKA Karatekas haven't catched up to them given that the stand up fighting is identical and the fact that JKA is so big?

The additional element of WKF involving sweeps have nothing do with how explosive practitioners of each organisation are at striking.

Is it talentpool? Superior training methodology? Some obscure ruleset difference I am missing?

sensei8 · KF Sensei

I don't believe that the WKF is much faster in Kumite than the JKA whether it be as an organization and/or as a practitioner. That might only be an individuals opinion/interpretation based on their own particular observations. In short, fact or fiction, it might be possibly more of an assumption, and it therefore lies within that individual/practitioner.

Imho

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Prototype · Green Belt

Wastelander · KF Sensei

Well, athletes, generally, are significantly more athletic than they used to be. Between the natural evolution of the species, modern supplements, and medical sports science improving training methods, I think that's to be expected. It's also impossible to deny that this has happened--just watch any of the Olympic events from 30-40 years ago, and compare them to the most recent ones, and you'll see a significant improvement. With that in mind, comparing any athletes from the 70's and 80's to modern ones isn't exactly fair.

Now, to speak to JKA and WKF, specifically, we can look at recent footage and compare a bit more evenly. I would say that, on average, the WKF competitors are, indeed, faster. Now, that could simply be because faster competitors are drawn to the WKF competition format. It could also be that because the WKF has been pushing for the Olympics, instructors coaching WKF competitors have incorporated more modern training methods to improve speed than the more traditional JKA competitors. It's hard to say without experiencing both training approaches for a comparable level of competition.
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sensei8 · KF Sensei

I'll remain with my opinion from my previous post on this subject!! Whether one group is or isn't shall vary from observer to observer, and so on and so forth, in I'll respect the opinions from either side of the argument!!

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Nidan Melbourne · KF Sempai

From my point of view, the WKF competitors are faster because they are wanting to get into the olympics and then also from looking at the scoring requirements they place a lot more emphasis on speed (whilst still being strong technical techniques).

However from what I have seen of JKA Tournaments they place more emphasis on Power and in a way Knocking their opponents down.

I compete in WKF tournaments within' Australia of which are organised by our National Federation (Australian Karate Federation) of which uses the WKF Rules. As to me the rules make more sense even when they are being adapted (minor changes) every few years.

In terms of SWEEPS in WKF level Tournaments this is what has come directly out of the rulebook:
"For reasons of safety, throws where the opponent is grabbed below the waist, thrown without being held onto, or thrown dangerously, or where the pivot point is above belt level, are prohibited and will incur a warning or penalty. Exceptions are conventional karate leg sweeping techniques, which do not require the opponent to be held while executing the sweep such as de ashi-barai, ko uchi gari, kani waza etc. After a throw has been executed the Referee will allow the contestant time to immediatly attempt a scoring technique."

As the rules also state for GRABBING you are supposed only grab with ONE Hand; however grabbing with 2 can warrant a Category 2 Warning. This is the information provided with the aforementioned Warning:

"1. Feigning, or exaggerating injury.
2. Exit from the competition area (JOGAI) not caused by the opponent.
3. Self-endangerment by indulging in behaviour, which exposes the contestant to injury by the opponent, or failing to take adequate measures for self-protection, (MUBOBI).
4. Avoiding combat as a means of preventing the opponent having the opportunity to score.
5. Passivity – not attempting to engage in combat. (Cannot be given after less than the last 10 seconds of the match.)
6. Clinching, wrestling, pushing, or standing chest to chest without attempting a a scoring technique or takedown.
7. Grabbing the opponent with both hands for any other reasons than executing a takedown upon catching the opponents kicking leg.
8. Grabbing the opponents arm or karategi with one hand without immediately attempting a scoring technique or takedown.
9. Techniques, which by their nature, cannot be controlled for the safety of the opponent and dangerous and uncontrolled attacks.
10. Simulated attacks with the head, knees, or elbows.
11. Talking to, or goading the opponent, failing to obey the orders of the Referee, discourteous behaviour towards the Refereeing officials, or other breaches of etiquette."

Training methods for competition do vary greatly according to the Tournament Type itself, between; Local, State, National and International levels of competition then also where you compare it between WKF, JKA, NASKA, ISKA and whatever tournament or organisation it is. As each has their own rules that are used.

Although from what I have seen is that the JKA does penalize inactivity more than the WKF does or they have specific rules for it when penalties for the same infraction has been given more than once.

Prototype · Green Belt

JKA emphasises power? It's the same light contact stipulation. Only difference in JKA being that ippon can be awarded if the opponent steps into what turns out to be a knockout of himself. At least the JKA of the 70s and 80s.

Prototype · Green Belt

Wouldn't a JKA Karateka get tagged in either format against a WKF Karateka? Is there any advantage with JKA?

bushido_man96 · KF Sensei

I'd be willing to guess that you are seeing a difference in the talent level. With the WKF being the body one needs to work with should Karate go Olympic, those athletes that aspire to that goal are probably already gravitating towards it. I could be wrong, but I think the same thing has kind of been seen in AAU Judo and AAU TKD.
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P.A.L · Black Belt

I couldn't understand your question. if you are from Japan then you need to be a member of JKA to participate in a WKF tournament. a WKF competitor is a world level karate-ka and a JKA member is a national level karate-ka. JKA has won 188 medals in WKF tournaments way more than USA with 35. so in average a JKA member should be better than average WKF competitor.

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