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Bon · Black Belt

'When you pick up one end of the stick, you automatically pick up the other end'.

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It takes sacrifice to be the best.

There are always two choices, two paths to take. One is easy. And its only reward is that it's easy.

YODA · Black Belt

Hi Bon

"If that's the case, then what's stopping from anyone walking in, sparring and then trying to sue the instructor and/or club ? "

---- Absolutely nothing. And if you can prove intent & negligence on their part you will & should win IMHO.

It's all about negligence. In sparring you are agreeing to exchange techniques in an agreed manner with agreed levels of contact & risk. If you can prove that you where injured through not being informed of those levels or by someone overstepping those levels with intend to cause injury then you have a case.

This is why I make it very clear to all concerned exectly what level of technique & contact we are working at when we spar. If student A injures student B through negligence rather than by accident - student B can sue student A. All my students carry 5 Million public Liability cover, and I carry 10.

We've had a few injuries that go beyond the usual bumps & bruises - but so far none that have been down to neglect on anyones part.

The biggest risk an Instructor faces with regard to being sued is from parents of kids you teach. I don't teach kids so that point is moot for my club.

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YODA
2nd Degree Black Belt : Doce Pares Eskrima www.docepares.co.uk
Qualified Instructor : JKD Concepts www.jkdc.co.uk
Qualified Fitness Instructor (Weights, CV, Circuit, Kinesiology)

Drunken Monkey · Black Belt

hey, so what was the final verdict on this case?
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post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are.

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The Saint · Green Belt

Well, that sucks about her taking one in the head. Was she wearing a helmet? What belt colour was she? Did she not read the Labels on all sparing Gear? Karate the last time I check was a physical art where you can get hurt. As for waivers and things like that you have to sign on at our dojo for liability sake.
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"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to go to his class." Choi, Hong Hi ITF Founder

Cybren · Orange Belt

As far as I'm aware, you can't "Sign away your rights" in the US either.

Karateka · Red Belt

Waivers in the end mean nothing. The lack of a waiver, in court, is just a nightmare and you are asking for trouble. Having a waiver present not only gives you some breathing room in court, but if someone is considering suing and they remember the waiver, they lose hope and don't persue the case. Its a smart idea. There is always the factor of negligence. Also, the waiver may not allow liability in a criminal trial, but civil court is just completely different. Criminally, no one is responsible for injuries sustained in sports. Since the instructor was not paying attention to the fight, however, it creates enough of a legal case to have merit. That being said, if the instructor ignored the two students and they were the ones who were being injured, it would be the Sensei at fault again for not supervising.

Moral of the story: supervise where you can have sight of all people in the class, that way disturbances can catch your attention. Sad lesson to be learned the hard way.
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"Never hit a man while he's down; kick him, its easier"

Sensei Ron Bagley (My Sensei)

Hoju · Yellow Belt

You can't "sign away your rights" but you can sign away liability. Basically, most (if not all) sporting clubs/schools from karate to dance to gyms, have you sign forms that say that you will not hold the school responsible if the injuries were not part of the school's negligence, even if they occur on the property.

In other words, if i come in and slip on the floor b/c it was wet, then I can sue. If I come in and slip on the floor b/c my shoe is bad, then I can't sue.

To hold legal liability in the United States, you need to prove 4 things.

1-There needs to be a duty owed: The school promises to provide you with oversight & instruction. You have protection which they tell you to put on.
2-There needs to be a breech of this duty, with no adverse reasons.
3-That breech needs to be proven as the proximate, or direct cause, of the contented injury or wrong.
4-That injury or wrong must be proven & have resulted in actual damages.

They are very hard things to prove straight across the board. She basically needs to prove that the school did something wrong and that was the direct reason for her injuries. And there are so many contentions the school could raise (including that she knew that sparring has potential contact).

Granted, this is US law, I don't know UK laws pertaining to this.

ninjanurse · KF VIP

I was once sued by a fellow student (senior in rank) who broke her arm when she fell incorrectly during a sweeping drill. The school was also named because they had allowed me to be a student there. Needless to say, she lost in court but it shows that no one is immune from getting sued regardless of the "assumption of risk" that we all take.

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"A Black Belt is only the beginning."
Heidi-A student of the arts
Tae Kwon Do,Shotokan,Ju Jitsu,Modern Arnis
http://the100info.tumblr.com/

Karateka · Red Belt

I think it is getting ridiculous. You hurt someone's feelings, you pull out a chequebook, you hurt someone in sports, you get sued. What is the point of even doing martial arts if all that is going to happen is students who look stupid and don't follow instructions get fed up and decide to collect? I mean, if I was being stupid and hurt someone, then yeah, i would expect to pay some consequences. However, if I don't intentionally hurt someone, especially if it is their fault, then I don't expect to do much more other than apologize. This is ridiculous.
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"Never hit a man while he's down; kick him, its easier"

Sensei Ron Bagley (My Sensei)

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