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Montana
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 883
Location: Formerly Kalispell, Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo
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 Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| the phoenix wrote: |
I just started learning TKD and I have only had a few classes ( love it)
I now carry a handgun, at all times. |
Kudos also for joining a martial arts class, but I would recommend, if there is an option in your area, to learn a system that is more self-defense oriented than TKD is. A Japanese/Okinawan system such as shorinryu, gojoryu, shotokan, aikido, etc, or Parker Kenpo, kick boxing, and others are much more self-defence oriented with an emphasis on practical techniques, not flash and breaking boards/bricks...all of which are worthless when it comes to defending yourself IMO.
As for the gun, it will give you more self confidence, but again, is useless unless you walk around with it in your hand and are trained in its use, and most importantly, are actually prepared to use it if you have to.
_________________
If you don't want to stand behind our troops, please..feel free to stand in front of them.
Student since January 1975---4th Dan, retired due to non-martial arts related injuries. |
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the phoenix
Yellow Belt
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 32
Location: St. Louis Mo
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info, I'll look into the options in my area.
Since I have no frame of reference in MA's I am open to any and all suggestions to find what will best serve my purpose. At present I am not fully mobile so it is a consideration when I look into schools.
As far as the gun goes, It does give me a lot of confidence and is my only concession to fear.
I have invested a lot of time and energy into proper training and I have no reservations or hesitation in following through with deadly force if needed.
Having said that I would prefer to learn to defend myself without the gun and I am fully aware that someone could take it away from me and use it against me.
_________________
Not all those who wander are lost... -- J.R.R. Tolkien |
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Ichi_Geki
Blue Belt
Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 316
Styles: Director of Fudoshin Machi Dojo
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Montana wrote: |
| the phoenix wrote: |
I just started learning TKD and I have only had a few classes ( love it)
I now carry a handgun, at all times. |
Kudos also for joining a martial arts class, but I would recommend, if there is an option in your area, to learn a system that is more self-defense oriented than TKD is. A Japanese/Okinawan system such as shorinryu, gojoryu, shotokan, aikido, etc, or Parker Kenpo, kick boxing, and others are much more self-defence oriented with an emphasis on practical techniques, not flash and breaking boards/bricks...all of which are worthless when it comes to defending yourself IMO.
As for the gun, it will give you more self confidence, but again, is useless unless you walk around with it in your hand and are trained in its use, and most importantly, are actually prepared to use it if you have to. |
Not all TKD is about flash and breaking. I would greatly suggest you sit in on a few of the classes and stray away from the demo classes.
Also check for Uechi Ryu... ...and Goju Ryu
Ossu! |
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tonydee
Blue Belt
Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 253
Location: Japan
Styles: 24 yrs kong soo do, 3 yrs hapkido, bits of others
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: A question |
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| the phoenix wrote: |
The guy that grabbed me picked me up off the ground while the other came closer.
My reaction at that point was pure shock..no reaction. The guy who came from behind my truck had a baseball bat, I realized I was in big trouble and kicked him in the face, I used the guy holding me to get leverage and knocked him out cold. I am sure he didn't expect that. |
Well done indeed.
| the phoenix wrote: |
The guy holding me started to strangle me and I think if I had known what to do I could have gotten away. As it was I fought long and hard but the guy I kicked came back around and long story short they beat me nearly to death and took my truck. I think they were after legal drugs I kept in my truck due to the type of work I did.
Could someone my size, caught totally by surprise escape from this attack?
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It's a difficult situation. Just walking through things systematically - rather verbose, but trying to get you to see the situation as a martial artist must....
As you were lifted off the ground, you've couldn't have pushed your legs against the ground - necessary to turn your hips strongly, which in turn would have made it practical to form a strong strike with your free arm/elbow. Still, an initial surprise strike might have been enough to have made him let go, if not he'd probably have held you in closer to smother further attempts. We'll come back to this elbow.
From that position, if his head was behind yours and on the side of your trapped arm, you would have been unable to reach your free arm back to attack his face or grab his hair, but they're useful attacks generally, and might have been possible momentarily during the struggle to get free of that initial grab. Also with that free arm, you might have been able to attack his groin, but I'm not sure it'd have dneo enough to make him let go, especially if he happened to be wearing something strong that might be pulled taught simply from the way he was standing (e.g. denim). It's not quite as easy to attack a man's groin as some would have you believe, and to restrict your ability he might have defensively hugged you tighter to him - even wrapping a leg partly around you - making it hard to free that arm too. Your free arm had little chance of pulling his arm off your throat, unless he was stupid enough to leave a finger or his thumb hanging out.
Your trapped arm just might have been able to reach his groin, but as per above, not a particularly promising option. The one place you could combine the available (albeit restricted) strength of both arms/hands to attack was his lower hand around your midsection. If you could extract a finger or thumb, you might have been able to break it. If his fist was firmly closed, then that was a bit of a dead end too. With you in the air, even with two hands you probably couldn't have twisted his wrist well enough to use a joint-lock escape.
The final option for hands is just to inflict pain: you'd need pretty strong fingernails to do any damage - even if his arms were bare - but you could potentially give a nasty scratch with a ring or key. Not enough for a guaranteed release, but another things to add to his confusion and doubt, perhaps creating a window of opportunity.
So, arms aren't particularly useful. Another option: the head - either a backwards headbutt (dangerous for you too - best when opponent's forehead is raised) - or biting (dangerous to be exposed to his blood). A headbutt that managed to hit the nose or jaw could easily be a fight changer.
Next - legs. A backward kick at the knee caps. Kicking backwards with only one leg at a time is a better option than both: generally speaking, you have half the surface area taking the same or more impact (which comes more from the swinging inwards and outwards of the torso and flexing of the spine, combined with as much twisting of the hip as can be managed, than from the thigh muscles themselves). Keep the other foot ready to catch yourself should you be released/dropped suddenly. So, a kick straight backwards at the front of the knee, or, if twisted away from his centre, the side of the knee. If the edges of your shoes were hard, you could have scraped them down his kneecap and/or shin. If you weren't lifted into the air, or got lowered momentarily, a downwards stomp onto the instep or toes could do damage and cause pain. If the first attempt failed, you would want to have randomly mixed up kicks from one leg then the other (or varied it based on the opportunities presented), to have kept him guessing. (You might want to buy some solid, practical shoes to go with your gun).
If you were only wearing something soft like sneakers and he didn't let go after the couple attacks, the probability would have got dramatically lower - he'd presumably have found some way to cope or moved you into some even more precarious position. So, ideally you'd have used the factor of surprise to help tip the balance, trying to make sure that first knee kick hit him unprepared and created a chance for you to release yourself. To do that, distract with an initial attempt at a free-arm elbow to the ribs - even if you knew it couldn't actually hit him - as it would have dramatically increased the chance you could land the knee kick before he refocused his attention. Concurrently, you'd ideally have readied your hands to prize out any loose fingers, or twist his bottom wrist as suddenly and hard as you could, hopefully letting you touch the ground and create some space to turn sideways, putting in a good elbow. There wasn't much for it except to keep kicking until he let go, with your hands primarily waiting for any opening (to bend a finger) or relaxation (to wrench the wrist) of his bottom hand, but if/when that seems a lost cause, using your free arm to lessen the pressure around your throat, elbow or attempt a hair grabs should you get the chance.
While all that was happening, you would have had to be wary of him deciding you were too much trouble upright, and either pushing you straight downwards, or seeking to fall backwards/forwards/sideways with you, then wrapping legs around you and using the ground to further restrict your movement.
Should you have escaped the initial grab, or at least got a foot or two firmly on the floor for a few seconds, many further options would have appeared... indeed, too many to mention.
Re styles... I practice and old style of taekwondo which is useful for self defence, but sadly Montana's correct in saying that a great many taekwondo schools these days are pretty worthless, and the average standard in traditional karate systems is higher. I wouldn't recommend aikido to you in this context, but the others he mentioned are credible.
Regards,
Tony |
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usc96
Yellow Belt
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 57
Location: East Coast
Styles: Kempo
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Glad to hear you made it through the ordeal. Two on one in that situation is hard. There are ways to get out of a bear hug, but as I said, two on one adds a dynamic so you shouldn't beat yourself up over not knowing it at the time.
To get out of a bear hug, stomp a foot with your heal. Step one leg out to the side a foot or so. Maneuver the other leg so you physically place that leg behind his (swing one leg towards the other, then swing it back behind his). This will get him off balance. Then, while he is teetering, root yourself while maintaining a good upright posture. Once your are set up, throw your arms and elbows straight out and back. This will drop the attacker.
At that point, you can stomp him in the head or groin, or run.  |
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the phoenix
Yellow Belt
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 32
Location: St. Louis Mo
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Tony and usc96 for the tips, very clear and informative.
I'll have to try those out.
_________________
Not all those who wander are lost... -- J.R.R. Tolkien |
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cymry
Purple Belt
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Wales, Great Britain
Styles: BJJ, freestyle wrestling
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:21 am Post subject: Re: A question |
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| the phoenix wrote: |
| Could someone my size, caught totally by surprise escape from this attack? |
Apparently yes, as you have already done so - rather worse off for wear, but you survived.
I would say you're going to reduce the chances of being injured in such a way again by taking preventative measures and carrying a gun than you are by doing TKD. |
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on the post.
