|
|
| Author |
Message |
tommarker
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 1325
|
 Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:46 am Post subject: An interesting quote |
 |
|
"American karate has blazed across the martial arts world, and like a mysterious light in the heavens, must be investigated-is it comet or a star? Unfortunately, all signs point to the comet but," said Yamamoto, "perhaps it may turn out to be a new star after all." He looked thoughtful. "One of the best ways to rehabilitate American karate," he said, "is to return it to the status of a deadly art instead of a sport as it is today. The best way to determine if we have reached our goal is by realizing that in a sport there are champions and in a deadly martial art there are sensei and students, nothing else. When the false trappings are torn away, the true culture of Bushido will shine like a beacon light to attract all, the fallen-away students of this martial art: karate."
20th Century Warriors - Prominent Men in the Fighting Arts: Gonnohyoe Yamamoto.
By John T. McGee
Karate Illustrated, July, 1971
_________________
I'm no longer posting here. Adios. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Kensai
Black Belt
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 1415
Location: Britain
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 12:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A mixture of both is always important.
But I sorta agree with that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Goju1
Blue Belt
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 266
Location: Coronado CA
Styles: IOGKF Goju Ryu
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| A mixture of both dilutes both IMHO. Sport karate bears little resemblance to the 'real thing' as far as I've seen. Just my 2 cents |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2279
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Boxing,Lars Wallin BJJ, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't think a mixture of both is necessary. I just think more realistic training methods are the key. You don't have to compete in tournaments to be well trained.
_________________
"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Lock em out or Knock em out" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Valithor
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 997
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Styles: GKR Karate
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Depends entirely on why you train. Self-defence is often not the main reason.
_________________
Keep Smiling! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WolverineGuy
Red Belt
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 753
Location: Flint, MI
Styles: Kalkinodo, San Chin Ryu, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Judo
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 8:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Bump on that. There are a large number of people that just do it to get in shape...some people do it because they love competing...others just cuz they have nothing better to do. 
_________________
Wolverine
1st Dan - Kalkinodo
"Shut up brain, or I'll stab you with a q-tip"
"There is no spoon." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pmh1nic
Yellow Belt
Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 76
Location: Long Island, NY
Styles: Jiu-Jitsu
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
The concepts of honor, respect, loyality, discipline, honesty and other virtues can be and should be taught in both types of training, whether the primary goal is self-defense or sport.
One of the problems in U.S. society is people are look for a get it quick method (no discipline), get it at any means (no honor, respect or loyality) and get it with the only major investment being money (no commitment).
As far as realistic training is concerned, we are one of the most litigious societies in the world. Ask the owner of your school to look at the terms of his liability insurance policy. It may give you an indication of why many schools are reluctant to have even light contact sparring let allow "realistic" contact training.
_________________
"The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?" Benjamin Franklin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tommarker
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 1325
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
my point was more that this was a quote from 1971, worrying about the same thing we worry about now.
_________________
I'm no longer posting here. Adios. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
delta1
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 1780
Location: North Central Washington
Styles: It's ALL Kenpo! Bring it back to base!
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 1:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tommarker wrote: |
| my point was more that this was a quote from 1971, worrying about the same thing we worry about now. |
That quote was a product of the times. At that time the Chinese were starting to worry that the latest paranoid government (the super paranoid communists), with a little help from the Qing Dynasty (1600's to early 1900's), had all but destroyed their martial arts. They were forbidden to be taught except as purely an art form. The Japanese had done the same thing, but they weren't as worried about it. The incursions of Western armies into the Orient, using firearms to decimate opposing armies, also caused these traditionally closed societies to re-evaluate their fighting methods. Fewer people had the time, resources, or inclination to truely study the martial arts as a desciple of a master. By the 1970's, almost all the real Masters were either killed, died of natural causes, exiled, driven underground, or just languishing for lack of dedicated students.
It was these conditions combined with the social and political upheavel of WWII that convinced many masters to share their knowlege with the West. It was either that, or see the arts die. Unfortunately, with Western practicioners came Western attitudes. We love sports of all kinds. We also love instant gratification. And we are independant minded capitalists- produce a product or service that sells or go hungry. Had martial arts not caught on as a sport here, they would have been almost wiped out. There were still some who studied the arts as a combative science (Western thought, again) and an art of personal developement and self defense. But it was the sport and health crowd, the socializers and entertainment industry, that paid the bills as well as popularizing the arts. For that matter, I bet most school owners here will tell you that it is the curiouse, those who never get much past yellow belt, who pay most of the bills.
By the 1970's, interest had peaked here, and many were looking for something deeper or more effective. A lot of things were being questioned. In fact, the prevalent attitudes of the times was to throw out everything in every aspect of life and society and start over, though many were starting to get burnt out and question their attitudes as well. Most of us were starting to look for some synthesis between old and new. We wanted something that worked.
The trend today is to look for the deeper meaning and more efficient application of the martial arts. Some combine arts to try to recapture the effectiveness as a combat system. Some go the simple route, reality training. All these are good. The old Chinese practitioners thought a style shoul include striking, manipulation, grappling, as well as psychological and healing components. The Japanese had a tendency to break these components into seperate arts, but not allways. We inhereted more of the Japanese method here. But I like the modern aproach of recombining arts to bring these components back under a cohesive style. At the same time, I don't look down on those who practice for different reasons. I do get a little torqued when they try to impose their reasons on me, but if others want to look down on what I do I just figure it shows their lack of understanding of history and their narrow minded aproach to life and the arts.
I'd say that all types of arts and practitioners are necessary. Not just because of the varried interests and needs, but for the survival and propogation of the arts as a whole.
_________________
Freedom isn't free! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pmh1nic
Yellow Belt
Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 76
Location: Long Island, NY
Styles: Jiu-Jitsu
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 12:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"When the false trappings are torn away, the true culture of Bushido will shine like a beacon light to attract all, the fallen-away students of this martial art: karate."
This was the main aspect of the quote I focused on in my comments. I don't believe that in order to restore the elements of Bushido you necessarily have to "return it (the art) the status of a deadly art instead of a sport." Many of the same concepts (honor, loyality, self-sacrifice, modesty, justice, etc.) are concepts that can and should be taught and applied whether you are learning a martial art for self-defense or sport reasons.
_________________
"The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?" Benjamin Franklin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
on the post.
