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Ethanb42
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 04 Apr 2020
Posts: 2

Styles: Shintani Wado Kai

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:57 pm    Post subject: Anybody seen this kata anywhere else? Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/EiO_FfdtzJM

Hey new to the forum, this is a kata taught in my federation called chocodo, this is the only video around I've been able to find. All the info I have is that it was taught to Sensei Shintani by his first teacher Akira Kitigawa. Cant even find info on him, anyways, its supposedly from some sort of shorin ryu, I'm just wondering if anyone has seen anything similar to this? Maybe with a different name? Or have any better history for the kata? I havnt found anything anywhere haha,
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Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 412
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, and welcome to the forums.

I would not wish to speak as an authority, but I am a student of Shorin-Ryu and have trained with several teachers in the discipline, both on Okinawa and elsewhere. I would thus be willing to say I am 99% sure that is not a kata of Okinawan, nevermind, Shorin-Ryu origin.

I have in the past done research of Masaru Shintani because, as mentioned I am a student of Shorin-Ryu and I find rare kata fascinating, but I also have a background in Wado-Ryu. I will summarise my thoughts.

It is entirely possible that Akira Kitigawa taught a heterodox form of Shorin-Ryu. Also, one should never have the hubris to presume what we now know as karate is the karate as happened earlier. Considering Shintani received that training in the 40s in an internment camp, we can presume it likely was heterodox. It is possible this kata is one with a historical lineage but through the horrors of the second world war, no other family system or ryu inherited it.

However, for my money, it looks like it takes its primary body of techniques from Naihanchi Shodan, with elements from Seisan, Wansu and Rohai Shodan integrated into it.

Masaru Shintani was a very inventive man, and from 1982 and the death of Ohtsuka Meijin, he is known to have continued to innovate. Several kata of the Shintani Wado Kai are not found in Wado-Ryu as taught by Ohtsuka Meijin, nor are they found outside the Shintani Wado Kai. I personally believe Masaru Shintani invented many of the kata, based on his studies with Akira Kitigawa, and his exposure to other systems of karate.

Just to be sure, as it has been a while, I have done a quick search to check if it may be of Chito-Ryu, Toon-Ryu, Ryuie-Ryu, or Isshin-Ryu origin. There seems to be no kata of that name in said systems. All systems closely related to Shorin-Ryu but taking a different path. Outside of the Shintani system I can find no mention of this kata.

This is not to say it is a bad kata, or that it violates the principles of Wado-Ryu, and more broadly Shuri-Te, but that it is likely a modern invention. Attributing it to Akira Kitigawa just gives it a lineage, and Shintani, and his followers that have maintained that story, would not be alone in such a strategy for enforcing a sense of historicity. After all, there remains the Heian Period myth about the Pinangata in certain Shotokan and Shotokai circles.
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2466
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add to Wado Heretic's response, I would say that the kata in the video is nothing I have seen before, either. It does have bits and pieces of several kata put together, and they are assembled in a pseudo-Naihanchi style enbusen, but structurally and mechanically, it doesn't look anything like the Shorin-Ryu that I learned. I would tend to agree with the theory that it was a modern creation.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14817
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to KF, Ethanb42; glad that you're here!!

https://shintani.ca/chocodo-online.html

https://gumroad.com/shintani

https://mapda.ca/students/kata-list

https://dynamickarate.ca/karate-belt-levels

Doing a casual search for the aforementioned Kata, Chocodo, the links above DO have said Kata listed, in one fashion or another. If the above links aren't of any value and/or you've already found them in your search, Ethanb42, I greatly apologize. By looking at the above links, it would appear that Chocodo isn't that rare/unusual, especially within those styles/systems that regularly train that specific Kata. What's rare in one style/system, is commonplace in others.

I, too, have never seen and/or heard of Chocodo whatsoever; I don't recognize it as something I've ever been exposed to. As Noah has stated...

Quote:
It does have bits and pieces of several kata put together, and they are assembled in a pseudo-Naihanchi style enbusen, but structurally and mechanically

Some of the techniques caught me by surprise; I'd like to see the Bunkai/Oyo of the Chocodo Kata.

Having been an Okinawan Karate-ka for just over 5 decades, I can't seem to wrap my head around it as something that's Okinawan. Albeit, that doesn't mean that the aforementioned Kata isn't Okinawan based; it's just another way of saying...I sure as fire that I don't recognize it at all.

I surely like Wado Heretic's post quite a lot; thanks for that information, Wado Heretic!!



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