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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey gents, bored at work so I stumbled back here-anyways...

Lots of music so it's hard for me to hear what you're saying so I'll share my insight on the position:

Simply put- people stand in bjj because they're afraid of classic guard positions, namely armbars and triangles. De la riva guard now results. Perhaps the simplest way to deal with the position is to not stand up, or to return to your knees when your opponent does set up the guard and now the guard can't be played anymore. The obvious reason why most people don't do this is because they never learn how to defend and fight from guard, from lowly white belt up to world champion black belts....

Avoiding the guard is a good short term objective but s bad long term objective
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tallgeese
KF VIP

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6857
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ-Jitsu wrote:
Hey gents, bored at work so I stumbled back here-anyways...

Lots of music so it's hard for me to hear what you're saying so I'll share my insight on the position:

Simply put- people stand in bjj because they're afraid of classic guard positions, namely armbars and triangles. De la riva guard now results. Perhaps the simplest way to deal with the position is to not stand up, or to return to your knees when your opponent does set up the guard and now the guard can't be played anymore. The obvious reason why most people don't do this is because they never learn how to defend and fight from guard, from lowly white belt up to world champion black belts....

Avoiding the guard is a good short term objective but s bad long term objective


I don't disagree on the fear of arm bar and triangles, or the fact you can't "avoid" the guard, but you can't deny the mobility one gains by moving to a standing position.

We always talk about it in light of a trade off. Knees equal stability, standing equals mobility. There are great games to be played in each. But again, I don't feel you can limit your jiu jitsu to one thing that is "your game." The entirety of the art is important.

I'm a kneeling passer. I like pressure passes, but I have several students who by body structure, or mindset, like standing passes better. I think one has to be able to teach across the board regardless of specialty.
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tallgeese wrote:
TJ-Jitsu wrote:
Hey gents, bored at work so I stumbled back here-anyways...

Lots of music so it's hard for me to hear what you're saying so I'll share my insight on the position:

Simply put- people stand in bjj because they're afraid of classic guard positions, namely armbars and triangles. De la riva guard now results. Perhaps the simplest way to deal with the position is to not stand up, or to return to your knees when your opponent does set up the guard and now the guard can't be played anymore. The obvious reason why most people don't do this is because they never learn how to defend and fight from guard, from lowly white belt up to world champion black belts....

Avoiding the guard is a good short term objective but s bad long term objective


I don't disagree on the fear of arm bar and triangles, or the fact you can't "avoid" the guard, but you can't deny the mobility one gains by moving to a standing position.

We always talk about it in light of a trade off. Knees equal stability, standing equals mobility. There are great games to be played in each. But again, I don't feel you can limit your jiu jitsu to one thing that is "your game." The entirety of the art is important.

I'm a kneeling passer. I like pressure passes, but I have several students who by body structure, or mindset, like standing passes better. I think one has to be able to teach across the board regardless of specialty.


In short.... Yes it's not "wrong" to stand up or kneel when passing, if I were to be as general as possible. Standing was done in response to spider guards in the earlier days of bjj. Makes sense, and there wasn't much of a reason *not* to stand. With the advent now of de la riva, worm, 50/50 and all these other types of guard, standing may not be the greatest option anymore. These games and the leglocks that ensue are a direct response and answer to someone standing- that's why they work so well.

In the sense of old school guard players- standing is a fast and easy response but the concept of standing also becomes severely limited when the person your fighting *doesnt* want to stay on their back and doesn't want to fight Jiu jitsu- say a mma fight for example, or even a no gi tourney where you're fighting a skilled wrestler that doesn't want to fight from his back.

So standing gives you more mobility, but it also gives your opponent more mobility. In a strict sense you want just enough space to pass and then you want to fill it up- so that your opponent can't. Too much of a good thing becomes a bad thing- standing like people do to pass in tournament leaves a simple option to stand up to the person on bottom. So then there's the passing on your knees for pressure and power- that's the good stuff, but sometimes people become wary of those savy guard players and want to stand up. These are the two extremes of strategies for how people pass. As ones career progresses (and hopefully your passing skill) you find that your feet are on the ground but you're not standing- but neither are you kneeling. It becomes a hybrid of the two- a way where you create *just enough* space for you and no more and smash your opponent. There no longer becomes "standing" passes and "smashing" passes but rather just passes where you have both mobility and pressure. When you cut all the fat you find that all these different passes are just the same thing taken to opposite extremes
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