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scohen0300
Blue Belt
Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 259
Location: It varies
Styles: Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu
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 Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:55 pm Post subject: Did I take makiwara training too seriously? |
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Hey friends!
So I spent a lot of time at the dojo this weekend and I’ve always LOVED playing around on the makiwara. However, I’m wondering if I may have done some serious damage to my forearm. After I felt my knuckles were approaching the point where I’d have to take weeks off instead of days, I switched to 3 point arm training on the sides of the makiwara, while still facing it (it’s the first exercise shown in the video below)
https://youtu.be/obEsDzZ3Slc
Now, I have some pain in my arm around the top of my forearm, close to the inner part of my elbow whenever I extend my arm. Areas around my forearm are swollen, but I wouldn’t say it’s too bad. To be honest, I had that inner pride about it going on until my aunt said that my cousin had a similar looking injury that turned out to be much worse than it looked and felt.
Looking for wisdom and advice! Thank you in advance.
_________________
Instagram: @srkdi_pgh
Shorin Ryu Karate Do International - Pittsburgh (SRKDI - PGH)
- Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, Nidan |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Did I take makiwara training too seriously? |
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| scohen0300 wrote: |
| After I felt my knuckles were approaching the point where I’d have to take weeks off instead of days |
Why did you do that? What were you hoping to achieve?
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Looking for wisdom and advice! Thank you in advance. |
Muscle tissue can take quite a lot of punishment, and repair very effectively as long as the damage is only minor.
Cartilage is a very different story. In most cases, the cartilage you have by the time you're about 20 is all you're getting for the rest of your life. Once you reach physical maturity and stop growing, your body changes and your cartilage tissue is effectively starved of a blood supply. That means that with a very few exceptions, it won't heal if it gets damaged. If you want to know what that means in practical terms, it means the following :
Osteoarthritis
Constant pain
A reduction in mobility of the affected joint(s)
Weakness around the affected area
Sometimes visible deformity
If you still want to smash your knuckles up, consider this. What I described above is just the beginning. For reasons that nobody seems to fully understand yet, once the cartilage is injured, the actual bone it is supposed to protect will start to grow around the injured site.only it won't simply replace the missing cartilage with bone tissue. It keeps going. On an xray it looks like little boney spikes. These little spikes grind against everything as the joint moves, causing very significant pain and further injury. This injury of course leads to inflammation. Trouble is, because there's not much room in the area of your knuckles, the nerves that supply your fingers run very close to the bone. Inflammation around there presses on the nerve. Over time this can damage the nerve. Apart from pain, this can also mean your fingers stop working.
So you said you're looking for some wisdom. My advice would be, don't smash your knuckles to oblivion. If your training means they'll be out of action even for a day, let alone weeks or months, then you're effectively ruining your own future and any short term gains will quickly evaporate when you can't even do basic things anymore without hurting. |
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scohen0300
Blue Belt
Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 259
Location: It varies
Styles: Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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OneKickWonder,
Wow! Thank you for your response!
Originally, I liked to hit the makiwara with my knuckles until I could feel that I’ve done work, but not enough to where I’d be in too much pain to hit it next time I’m at the dojo. I tried thinking about it the same way that I would when I used to lift weights, expecting soreness to be a normal thing.
What you said makes total sense, I can’t approach bones and cartilage the same way. Something I never knew! I will absolutely be keeping this is mind next time.
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Instagram: @srkdi_pgh
Shorin Ryu Karate Do International - Pittsburgh (SRKDI - PGH)
- Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, Nidan |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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The kung fu dudes take a different approach to hand conditioning to what many karate dudes do. I personally think the Chinese approach is more sustainable, and they still end up as tough as old boots, but they seem to keep their youth for longer.
The kung fu folks like to fill little cloth bags with things, attach said cloth bags to something immovable, and hit that. What they fill the bags with depends on the stage they're at with their conditioning. They'll start with something fairly padded, like straw or dried herbs. Not like the straw rope of a traditional makiwara but straw as in like a cushion. Once they can hit that as often as they like without their knuckles going red or hurting, they'll refill the bag with something slightly more harsh like dried beans. I've heard of people building up to ball bearings or even gravel but that seems counterproductive to me. But in any case, because it's a bag of stuff, whatever that stuff happens to be, the contents can move around the impact, rather than all of the force smashing through your joints.
There is something to consider when it comes to any kind of 'traditional' conditioning training. That is that often these historical dudes had no way of knowing any better. The science just wasn't known until fairly recently. Even now there are still folks that say no pain no gain. Sports science has come on in leaps and bounds in recent decades. Traditional is not always best.
I think when it comes to hand conditioning, we'd do well to ask ourselves, who has has the hardest punch, and the ability to repeat it over and over, and how do they train? My best guess to this answer would be western boxers. Sure they wear big protective gloves all the time, but I bet the absence of such gloves wouldn't cause them too much trouble if they had to use their skills for self defence one time. In training, they hit really hard, many times, but they are hitting things that will absorb some of the impact rather than chipping away at their joints. |
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Byzantine
White Belt
Joined: 08 Jul 2017
Posts: 14
Location: Perth, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin, Judo, Aikijutsu, JJJ
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:52 am Post subject: |
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Why put yoga as a martial arts style in your sig
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"Great minds think alike. Then again, so do stupid ones" |
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scohen0300
Blue Belt
Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 259
Location: It varies
Styles: Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Byzantine wrote: |
| Why put yoga as a martial arts style in your sig |
Because it says “styles,” not “martial arts styles” and I like to think my yoga practice helps my karate practice, just as much as my karate practice helps my yoga practice. In the dojo, out of the dojo, on my mat, off my mat. 
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Instagram: @srkdi_pgh
Shorin Ryu Karate Do International - Pittsburgh (SRKDI - PGH)
- Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, Nidan |
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RW
Green Belt
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 426
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2359
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Did I take makiwara training too seriously? |
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| scohen0300 wrote: |
Hey friends!
So I spent a lot of time at the dojo this weekend and I’ve always LOVED playing around on the makiwara. However, I’m wondering if I may have done some serious damage to my forearm. After I felt my knuckles were approaching the point where I’d have to take weeks off instead of days, I switched to 3 point arm training on the sides of the makiwara, while still facing it (it’s the first exercise shown in the video below)
https://youtu.be/obEsDzZ3Slc
Now, I have some pain in my arm around the top of my forearm, close to the inner part of my elbow whenever I extend my arm. Areas around my forearm are swollen, but I wouldn’t say it’s too bad. To be honest, I had that inner pride about it going on until my aunt said that my cousin had a similar looking injury that turned out to be much worse than it looked and felt.
Looking for wisdom and advice! Thank you in advance. |
I'd say that you should go get it checked out, as many people have a high pain tolerance but in reality could have an injury.
When it comes to conditioning you need to be aware of how much is safe and how much isn't. As such when you switch things up, you should be aware of how hard you are hitting + how much pressure you are placing on joints. |
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P.A.L
Black Belt
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1263
Location: Texas
Styles: Shorin-ryu
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I use ibuprofen,ice bag, light compression or brace. No snapping blocks , no elbow locking. I have lots of elbow injuries, If you didn't hear a pop most likely it is not a tear.a light elbow injury takes about 4-8 weeks to heal. |
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Byzantine
White Belt
Joined: 08 Jul 2017
Posts: 14
Location: Perth, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin, Judo, Aikijutsu, JJJ
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:02 am Post subject: |
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Huhu yoga flame!!
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"Great minds think alike. Then again, so do stupid ones" |
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on the post.
