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XtremeTrainer
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 89


PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:40 pm    Post subject: Difference Between Belt And Rank Reply with quote

For styles of the martial arts that use colored belts as a system of rank I would like to point this out, the physical belt is not the rank its a symbol of the rank. This should be obvious enough but all too often people confuse the two things or at least act like they confuse them. Lets say somebody says, "I want to get a black belt." You could tell them that they could easily order or buy such a belt on the internet or from a martial arts store for about $10. Most martial arts supplies stores will sell you any color belt you want including a black belt but I don't think that's what most people mean when they say they want to get a black belt. What they probably mean is "I want to earn the rank of 1st Dan," or Shodan as its sometimes called, the first rank that is represented by wearing a black belt but as I said the belt is just a symbol. Earning the rank of 1st Dan is not about acquiring a certain belt its about gaining the knowledge and skill that is required for 1st Dan and in doing so meeting the standards for the rank of 1st Dan.

As Mr. Miyagi said in the movie "The Karate Kid," Karate is in the head and in the heard it is not in the belt. What Mr. Miyagi says is true, the belt just symbolizes what's in the head and heart.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14370
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Proof is on the floor!!

Belt and/or rank mean absolutely nothing across the board; a symbolism that derides the practitioner without the knowledge and experience.

Only the layperson views either, especially the belt, with an unaware eye. The MAist, those same things still aren't clearly understood; oh, they have their own idea as to what it might be, but even that's a mystery.

These symbols are a very well known part of the MA, and those that practice said MA have accepted them for their own reasons.


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XtremeTrainer
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 89


PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Proof is on the floor!!

Belt and/or rank mean absolutely nothing across the board; a symbolism that derides the practitioner without the knowledge and experience.

Only the layperson views either, especially the belt, with an unaware eye. The MAist, those same things still aren't clearly understood; oh, they have their own idea as to what it might be, but even that's a mystery.

These symbols are a very well known part of the MA, and those that practice said MA have accepted them for their own reasons.



Belts in and of themselves mean nothing. Rank on the other hand, I would say that depends where you got the rank and what standards you had to meet in order to get it. In BJJ for instance rank is not just handed out, at least I've never known of any BJJ school that does, so if you've got a high rank in BJJ you would have to have earned it and it will show on the floor.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14370
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

XtremeTrainer wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Proof is on the floor!!

Belt and/or rank mean absolutely nothing across the board; a symbolism that derides the practitioner without the knowledge and experience.

Only the layperson views either, especially the belt, with an unaware eye. The MAist, those same things still aren't clearly understood; oh, they have their own idea as to what it might be, but even that's a mystery.

These symbols are a very well known part of the MA, and those that practice said MA have accepted them for their own reasons.



Belts in and of themselves mean nothing. Rank on the other hand, I would say that depends where you got the rank and what standards you had to meet in order to get it. In BJJ for instance rank is not just handed out, at least I've never known of any BJJ school that does, so if you've got a high rank in BJJ you would have to have earned it and it will show on the floor.

Ranks still mean nothing; unless ones chasing after rank, instead of just training. Belts are just the outwardly identifier of rank.

Imho!!



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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Within our club, we have a few that I consider to be belt chasers.

For me though, my belt serves two purposes.

1. It helps to hold my jacket shut.
2. When we get visiting instructors who may not know us all personally, our belts give them some indication of our experience. The guess instructor that wants to demonstrate a takedown for example, might select a student to demonstrate on that is likely to go with the flow rather than panicking, resisting, and falling awkwardly and hurting themselves. To that end, the visiting instructor merely needs to look at the colour of people's belts. If he sees that the belt is white or orange belt, he may move along the line until he says maybe a brown or a black belt. Then he can reasonably expect, without knowing anything else about his chosen helper, that that individual knows how to fall and roll out safely.
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1718

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is arguably no difference between rank and belt. Both of these are arbitrary in that the criteria for which they are given wildly vary from one school or instructor to the next. Perhaps belts are more obvious for they are tangible markers that can be seen.

Both are only significant when one trains within a group where the instructor must keep track of everyone’s progress. When training is individual, private or in very small numbers ranking and belts are meaningless and may as well not be considered.
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XtremeTrainer
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 89


PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
There is arguably no difference between rank and belt. Both of these are arbitrary in that the criteria for which they are given wildly vary from one school or instructor to the next. Perhaps belts are more obvious for they are tangible markers that can be seen.

The difference is that belts are symbols of rank, simply having a belt doesn't mean you're of the rank. Just like in the US Army how a star is the symbol for the rank of General. When a person gets promoted to General they do it by meeting certain standards and they have special rights and privileges that come with the rank and they wear a star to show and symbolize the rank. However, simply coming into possession of a physical star or simply putting a star on will obviously not make you a General.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I'd be fine wearing a white belt until I earn my black belt. My friend made a solid case for why more rank indicators are a good thing. He comes from a very large school, and the instructors sometimes need to travel between locations. That instructor may not be too familiar with the students at a particular location, but by knowing rank at a glance, the instructor can then know about what's appropriate for the lessons, and what isn't.
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(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14370
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knowledge and experience can't hide on the floor, no matter what the outwardly identifier might be. However, that too is subjective through the observer.

Imho!!



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XtremeTrainer
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 89


PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the future I will make a thread where I talk about how I personally feel about rank. The purpose of this thread was just to point out the difference between ranks and belts, that the belt was just the symbol of the rank not the rank itself.
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