Expulsion!

Chitsu · Orange Belt

In terms of speech science p's and b's are referred to as "bi-labial" sounds - in other words both lips have to come together to make the sound.

As I understand it, in spoken Japanese, where a "n" precedes a "bi-labial" sounding letter it is rounded off to an "m" sound - as it is another bi-labial sound (with a similar resonance to n)

Therefore Senpai = Sempai, Enbu = Embu, Honbu = Hombu etc.

Chitsu
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ninjanurse · KF VIP

Pronunciation of a non-english word does not depend on how it is spelled (in roman letters)-the rules differ from language to language. For example the german word wurst , as in brat wurst, is commonly mis-pronounced by english speakers as "worst" when it should be pronounced as "vurst". The v's and w's switch their sound, just as the m's and n's in translations of Japanese. Since there are two accepted "written" Japanese translations, one making it easier to avoid mis-pronunciation....neither is incorrect. As far as sempai goes, it is the romanization of senpai and falls into this same category-neither is incorrect.

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Chitsu · Orange Belt

As understand it the Hepburn Romanization is much more widely recognised throughout Japan and the rest of the world.

Kurei-shiki is also recognised by the Japanese government as an alternative but is not as widely used.

Most of the dual language road signs in Japan for example use the Hepburn Romanization.

Refer to works by quality authors (Japanese and Western) and the vast majority will use this spelling (with an "n").

I quite understand the reasoning behind making a more direct link between the phonetic sounds of words especially if the end result is to understand how a word is said and therefore recognised as part of the spoken language, however the problem here – on forums and in literary works, is that there are often deeper associations / meaning behind words that are at risk of being lost if they cannot be understood in writing first and foremost. It’s then up to educated student to make the conversion from written meaning to spoken word.

Take Junzuki/Oizuki as another example:

I used to believe it was more correct to write “Juntsuki” in accordance with the two parts that make up the compound word.

"Jun" = same side (ie arm to leg ratio), and "Tsuki" meaning thrust or punch until I was taken to one side by a native Japanese person who advised me that, it was much more common (and therefore more broadly accepted), to write as “Junzuki”.

Both are in fact not wrong and to each their own, but from a broader perspective I like to ensure I am being as accurate / most commonly understood - as possible.

I am usually the first to question the validity of a Wiki entry but in this case they seem to have it right.

In budō sports (Japanese martial arts) like karate, judo, aikido, kendo, etc., there is usually a headquarter for each organization or region[4]. The Japanese word honbu (本部)[5] is generally used for that, also outside Japan. Sometimes they refer to this headquarters as honbu dojo (本部道場) in which dojo (道場) is a facility provided for practicing discipline, the training ground. Sometimes honbu is written as hombu, the way it is pronounced, but according the Hepburn transcription, the correct spelling should be honbu in which the 'n' is a syllabic n

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honbu

Same applies with Senpai

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sempai

Chitsu

[edit] Updated for clarity
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ninjanurse · KF VIP

It comes down to which translation one uses and since both are recognized it does not make one any less correct-maybe more common, but even that can be debated as "hombu" is widely used in Japan (and the US) and I doubt it will change.

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"A Black Belt is only the beginning."
Heidi-A student of the arts
Tae Kwon Do,Shotokan,Ju Jitsu,Modern Arnis
http://the100info.tumblr.com/

Chitsu · Orange Belt

In my experince most of the Japanese authors use Honbu.
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look at the moon, not my finger.

Chitsu · Orange Belt

I just updated my prvious post Ninjanurse

Chitsu
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look at the moon, not my finger.

Toptomcat · Green Belt

Is this really worth getting into a scrap about, guys? There are two valid methods of Romanizing Japanese words. In Chitsu's experience, one of them is more common than the other when dealing with JMA. End of story, nothing to fight about.

ninjanurse · KF VIP

No scrap....just a discussion on linguistics, which by the way, seems to interest us both. It is a tad off subject though

!

_________________
"A Black Belt is only the beginning."
Heidi-A student of the arts
Tae Kwon Do,Shotokan,Ju Jitsu,Modern Arnis
http://the100info.tumblr.com/

Chitsu · Orange Belt

Hehe!

Toptomcat - thank for your concern, but there is no fight here. I beleive we have both learn't from one and other, which has to be the core reason why we participate in these forums.

I say lets have more of these.

Chitsu
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look at the moon, not my finger.

Chitsu · Orange Belt

Just got Ninja'd by Ninjanurse!!

Dohh!!
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