How do I get the girl to stop whining?

CheekyMusician · Green Belt

To be honest, this might be the kind of problem that can never really be solved.

I've taken Bible classes and taken kids for music lessons for quite a few years, and I've learned over time that a set-up that runs teacher-advanced student-beginner will rarely work. You've noticed this yourself. You're frustrated at not being able to provide for both students and are projecting your frustrations onto the beginner student; the advanced student isn't getting as much out class as he could be; and the beginner student feels awkward practicing in a class with two far more experienced martial artists.

If your class were bigger I'm sure it wouldn't be as much of an issue, as the beginner student would be able to hide herself among others and would no doubt be training alongside people of the same level and below her level as well as more advanced students, and therefore, wouldn't feel quite so self-critical. Really, you can't blame her. If I was training on my own with my Sensei and one of the more advanced students in the class I'd feel like an idiot.

How about you try splitting the class in half. The first half of the class you do basic things that you know she wont be struggling with, things that she can fine tune, then slowly work up to harder things. You might want to get the more advanced student to practice along with you both, or it might be better to get him off on his own practicing forms or something. Try it both ways and see what this female student responds to best.

The second half of the class can be dedicated to the advanced student, doing the stuff he needs in order to be challenged. Tell the beginner student she has three choices:
1. She can feel free to join in, but if she does so she can't moan or whinge as you are aware that this stuff will be difficult for her, but you've already spent time exclusively working with her and now your other student needs time put out on him. So, she can participate if she wants, but not if she's going to complain or seek your attention.
2. She can sit out and watch and learn from watching what you're teaching the other student.
3. She can go off on her own and practice what you've been going over with her earlier on in the class.
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JusticeZero · Black Belt

Well, the main issue i'm having right now is that I need her to have basic familiarity with how to do the core movements of the art. Alot of them don't make as much sense in isolation (eg. defenses) and even those which can be done are harder to make work without someone else to make the technique relevant to a paired situation. I'd say we've gone through about 3/4 of the core, and as I said, after that i'm not as worried about stalling, as then I can put together a single compound, and they can obsess over one aspect of it as much as they want; most of the material will be review and enhancement of old material, assembled and combined differently.
In essence, i'm trying to "teach the first form" so that we can work on the details in a looser fashion. Well, we don't do forms, but the principle is the same. 'We'll work on X, and i'm going to cover Z with the other guy. Then we're going to drill, you'll do what we've been doing on X.. when the other person does Z, do Y then X and they'll respond with Q. Then ginga across and repeat.' If they both know Q-Z, it works.
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CheekyMusician · Green Belt

Well I don't know anything about either of the arts you're teaching, so I don't know how valid this point I'm going to make is actually going to be for you, but maybe you need to realise that the way you want to teach and the way things worked for you when you were learning and the way things worked for previous pupils don't necessarilly work with every student.

I remember when I first started studying physics at school my teacher told me, "Don't try to understand it, just memorise it." At the time I thought he was an idiot...after all, it surely isn't worth learning something if you don't understand it. Over time, though, I began to understand him. If I'd tried to understand everything right at the start, I would have confused myself, become too saturated with too much above my level and would have either quit or failed.

Same when I teach kids music. I don't sit them down and say, "Right. This is how music is structured...first of all let's consider all the keys and memorise all the key signatures, then we'll learn about chord structures." Yeah, it would be great if I could teach that from day one and if they understood it they'd no doubt find the rest of their musical education would come easily to them, but the chances are they'd have become far too confused or bogged down while wading through the quagmire of musical theory to actually get to the practical part.

I know it can be frustrating as a teacher to be on a level where you can see where techniques all fit together and what they're used for, and you can't imagine or really clearly remember a time when you didn't know all that, and you can't possibly perceive how anyone could understand the art without knowing all that, but sometimes people find it easier to 'go through the motions' and not understand why they're doing it at first, then that can be slowly introduced.

As I say, I know nothing about your arts so this may not apply, but for instance, when I started karate I used to stand beside someone (usually one of the class teachers), and copy everything he did. Most of the time my 'copies' weren't correct, so he started to fix them, helping me to position my arms and legs right etc. There was no worry at that stage if it wasn't perfect or powerful. Once I had the basic moves 'copied' relatively well, he started to take my aside and categorise them all for me. He split my copied movements into blocks, kicks and punches, and then practiced with me telling me to show him all the blocks I knew etc. Once he was happy that I was able to do this, he started to introduce the Japanese names and explain what each block was used for. It was a steady progression, and of course, now as a more experienced student I'm capable of categorising techniques for myself, and learning applications as a matter of due course.

So really, this was a really long-winded way of saying that sometimes just because individual techniques don't make sense out of context for you, as the teacher, doesn't necessarilly mean they wont make sense out of context, and perhaps even be far easier to learn in the beginning, for a student.
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JusticeZero · Black Belt

OK, here's the thing: It isn't that the movements don't make sense out of context to me, it's that we have to learn a certain sense of timing at the same time and that needs a second person. It's much like how it's a real pain to learn how to do throws without a partner to throw. This has to do with a fundamental principle of timing in the art which flows through everything.
The smallest unit of drill is #1 attacks; #2 defends and transitions into an attack; #1 transitions into a defense. Often there's some more interesting steps afterward, but those are usually more advanced movements. Generally the attacks and defenses don't match from one side to the other.
In order to accomplish being able to perform training the stuff correctly, since we don't do that much recycling of drills, they have to know a certain number of movements that are basics. As you said about your physics class, "Don't try to understand it, just memorize it."

I gave them a list of those basics Tuesday. There are 3-4 movements on that list she hasn't attempted yet. I can knock those out more slowly, if i'm careful with putting drills together. I've just been having trouble getting through a day's material, no matter how little it may seem to be.

Class structure is fairly similar to:

15m - singing/music
15m - warmup (ginga w midlevel kicks and escapes), au down the room x4, role down the room x10, queda de rins dives down the room x2)
50m - drills/new material, sometimes capped with a few minutes of roda time
10m - cooldown stretching
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karategirl06 · Orange Belt

You have to get her to boost her self confidence. Then she wil get the point and stop complaing...Question..Why is she in karate if all she does is complain? Karate is a pretty hard sport, if she cant take it, she either nees to find a easier sport or toughen up. I am a girl and I have NEVER done ANYTHING like that!
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ivette_green · Blue Belt

You should say, if you cannot do these things then why are you here? And the response is, she can do them and that is why she stays. Well, I suppose don't say it to her it would come off as pretty harsh, but think it...

Fox_NFLs_GG · Yellow Belt

Fox_NFLs_GG · Yellow Belt

Sorry, JusticeZero my bad. I thought you were just student having problems with another students...

Ginny · White Belt

Is the other person working out with her the type that catches on fast to things?

I know My Husband only has to be shown how to do something once where it takes me a few times and while we are working out I start to feel bad thinking I am holding him back from learning.

Perhaps when she says something to the fact " I can not do this" Look her in the eyes with a stern look and says somethin like " you can do anything you want to do if you want to do it bad enough"

As for the not wanting to kick you as she doesn't want to hurt you I am guilty of that myself when I started LOL I watched my instructors spar and knew how hard they could kick and soo did not want to be on the reciving end of it so tryed to kick them softly as we always heard Tit for tat So if I did not hit them hard they didn't hit me hard ..

But after a while of hearing " come on you can do better then that!" and getting bonked in the head with a ridge hand a few times I kinda figured out I could kick them as they are not going to break .
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