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pineapple
Black Belt
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 1039
Location: Hawaii
Styles: Kajukenbo
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 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:16 am Post subject: Law suits |
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I like to see my students rough it up once in a while, however I am always worried about liability. Everyone signs a liability form but this alone does not completely protect oneself from liability if any type of negligence can be proven.
My question is how do you provide more contact without worrying about being sued?
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Shorinryu Sensei
Black Belt
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 2045
Location: Kalispell, Montana
Styles: Shorinryu Matsumura Kenpo (Seito/Orthodox) Karate and Kobudo
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Law suits |
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| pineapple wrote: |
I like to see my students rough it up once in a while, however I am always worried about liability. Everyone signs a liability form but this alone does not completely protect oneself from liability if any type of negligence can be proven.
My question is how do you provide more contact without worrying about being sued? |
This is a GREAT topic, a needed one, and one that will get you all sorts of answers.
My sensei went to a lawyer way back when and had a release of liability form drawn up, and years later I took that same form to a different lawyer for his opinion of it. I also had a lawyer in my classes for about a year that made some minor changes to it.
What they all said was that you needed "expressed liability" on the form. In other words, you needed to state that the potential to get injured during training was ever present. You also need to sit down with each and every student (and parents if under 1 BEFORE they join and explain the form to them. You must make sure they understand that they aren't going to be doiong square dancing (that's what I tell them anyway) in the class, and that people will be throwing kicks, punches, sweeps, etc at them, just as they will learn to doi to others, and that they can get hurt in here (the dojo).
Even with this, yes, they can still sure you for literally anything, the same as if I walked into a Pizza Hut and sued them because I burnt my tongue on a hot pizza. However...you're correct. They have to prove negligence on your part. meaning you were doing something unsafe...and that's a real gray area.
I've been in the arts for 30+ years now, and to date, I have never heard of a sensei being sued because of what he has taught. Not to say it hasn't happened, or won't happen to you...but I believe that students know they are taking a risk in class and accept that risk as part of the training.
I don't have my laibility form on my PC, but I'll try to type it up later and put it on here.
Oh...as for how to add more contact in your school without getting sued...we do full contact with Okinawan Bogu gear. It isn't requiredof everybody, but rather presented as an option. I think taking precautions like hand/foot pads, mouth guard and head protection and a groin cup, and allowing the students to choose if they want to do it or not would be best. Also, you need to make sure that if somebody gets hurt, or takes a hard shot...the fight is stopped IMMEDIATELY before the other person has a chance to do more damage. |
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Shorinryu Sensei
Black Belt
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 2045
Location: Kalispell, Montana
Styles: Shorinryu Matsumura Kenpo (Seito/Orthodox) Karate and Kobudo
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:58 am Post subject: |
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I found my release of liability form.
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Kobukan Karate School Release of Liability Form
The undersigned, as an enrolled student of Paul A. Weed and/or The Kobukan Karate School and Okinawan Shorinryu Matsumura Kenpo Karate and Kobudo, training in the mental, physical and moral aspects of being a karate person, and in recognition of the fact that such training can involve strenuous physical exercise and physical contact with the attendant possibility of physical and/or mental injury, do hereby release and agree to absolve Paul A. Weed and/or The Kobukan Karate School of any and all blame and/or liability as a result of such training, or in connection with any activity associated or related therewith.
By my/our signature(s) below, I/we hereby consent to the possible injuries this activity may cause. Also by my/our signatures below, I/we have been fully informed of the possible dangers of this activity. I/We further agree that I/we and my/our heirs, executors and administrators will never institute any suit or action at law or in equity against Paul A. Weed and/or The Kobukan Karate School in connection with such training, nor institute, prosecute, or in any way aid in the institute and/or prosecution of any such claim, demand, cause of action for damages, costs, loss of service, expenses and/or compensation for, or on account of any damage, loss or injury resulting from such training.
Dated this ____________ day of ______________________, 20____.
Signature of Student: ___________________________________
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NOTE: If student is under 18 years of age, the following must also be signed by the parent(s) and/or guardian(s) prior to class participation.
I/We, the undersigned parent(s)/guardian(s) of _________________________, do hereby consent to his/her participation and enrollment as a student of Paul A. Weed and the Kobukan Karate School. By my/our signatures below, I certify and affirm that I have read the above Release of Liability Form, and agree to be bound by it.
Dated this ____________ day of ______________________, 20____.
Father_____________________________
Mother____________________________
Guardian___________________________ |
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pineapple
Black Belt
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 1039
Location: Hawaii
Styles: Kajukenbo
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, Shorinryu Sensei for your reply! 
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Shorinryu Sensei
Black Belt
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 2045
Location: Kalispell, Montana
Styles: Shorinryu Matsumura Kenpo (Seito/Orthodox) Karate and Kobudo
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| No problem...always glad to help. |
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tkdBill
Orange Belt
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 185
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Taekwondo
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| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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We carry a million dollar liability insurance policy to protect ourselves. The insurance company requires us to have students sign a waiver. There are a number of companies that sell martial arts insurance. Since waivers or "hold harmless" agreements seldom hold much water in court, liability insurance is essential unless you don't mind risking everything you have.
I think the waiver just protects you against nuisance lawsuits, but if someone gets seriously hurt, they will be forced to sue whoever they can to pay their own medical bills. You (or your insurance company) will have to pay $$$$ just to defend yourself, let alone you could lose the case. Not worth it.
Don't forget, someone could get a serious injury just falling down or twisting their back wrong. It's not just if they "rough it up" |
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senna_trem
Green Belt
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 458
Location: British Columbia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Has anyone ever been sued, had a parent angry that their kid got hurt or pulled their kid out because they got hurt?
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"I think therefore I am" Rene Descartes |
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Kieran-Lilith
Brown Belt
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 673
Location: Ohio
Styles: Eugue Ryu, Iaido, Aikido
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Dunno....we've had people who left because they couldn't take pain, and parents who couldn't stand to watch their child hurt.
Our liability forms even say that the dojo is not responsible if any death occurs.
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He who gains a victory over other men is strong; but he who gains a victory over himself is all powerful Lao-tsu |
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Shorinryu Sensei
Black Belt
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 2045
Location: Kalispell, Montana
Styles: Shorinryu Matsumura Kenpo (Seito/Orthodox) Karate and Kobudo
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| senna_trem wrote: |
| Has anyone ever been sued, had a parent angry that their kid got hurt or pulled their kid out because they got hurt? |
As I said in an earlier post, I've never seen..or even heard of a sensei being sued. This subject comes up often at "after tournament gatherings" (meaning beer and pizza) of all the sensei and senior students taht attended the tournament. Nobody else has either.
Now...that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened...but I think it is rare. |
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pineapple
Black Belt
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 1039
Location: Hawaii
Styles: Kajukenbo
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I've never seen..or even heard of a sensei being sued |
I never heard of any sensei being sued but I guess that I always worry about it because I work in a correctional facility where staff are constantly being sued by inmates for anything and everything.
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on the post.
