Add KarateForums.com
Let's Help sensei8 in His Time of Need
KarateForums.com Awards 2021: Winners Revealed!
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Equipment and Gear
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

tatsujin
Member of the Month
Member of the Month

Joined: 12 Oct 2021
Posts: 53

Styles: Ryusei-ha Ryukyu Kempo Karate-jutsu

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject: Looking for a kamidana Reply with quote

I don't know if a kamidana is considered to be equipment or gear, but I will give it a shot.

I was wondering if anyone has a good source for a reasonably price kamidana? An appropriate ofuda would be nice, but not a deal breaker.

Maybe I will get lucky and someone actually in Japan will see this and we can work something out.

Thanks for any potential help!
_________________
For me bujutsu is not a set of techniques, but a state of the body. Once the principles are integrated, the techniques surge spontaneously because the body is capable of adapting instantaneously.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1817
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is a kamidana?
_________________
Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

tatsujin
Member of the Month
Member of the Month

Joined: 12 Oct 2021
Posts: 53

Styles: Ryusei-ha Ryukyu Kempo Karate-jutsu

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zaine wrote:
What is a kamidana?


It would probably help for me to not assume that everyone knows what is being discussed! LOL! Sorry about that.

This could turn into a long topic and it is well known in some circles that I love to "talk". So, I will keep it as simple as possible and generalized to a large degree. However, I am happy to answer any questions at all or get into discussions based on what is here.

In many Japanese and Okinawan based martial arts, there are specific "rituals" that are followed when bowing into and out of class.

So, at the front of the dojo (referring to the floor or workout area) you will quite often find a kamidana. Some people call it the "god shelf". I think that interpretation is technically incorrect and gives off the wrong expectation as to what it really is. Using "spirit shelf" would be, in my opinion, more correct. This would usually be placed on the north wall and if that is not possible the west wall. It will typically be 5" to 6" off of the ground

The kamiadana is the little shrine looking object that is often accompanied by other items. They can come in various configurations, but the following image is a good representation.



The large "roofed" focal point in the rear is called the Jinja and is a shrine. Inside of the jinja is often found an ofuda. This is typically paper and is a charm or amulet that comes from an actual Shinto temple in Japan. Different types of ofuda can be displayed without a kamidana, but that is a topic for a different day. Displayed in the image above are:

Shinkyo - this is the mirror on the stand. To an actual Shinto practitioner, this is where the kami (spirit) actually resides. If you are not a follower of Shinto (and especially for Western martial artists), we should see that all of the qualities that are represented in a visual way on the shrine are actually a reflection of those that we should, hopefully, find within ourselves.

Shingu - these are the while (almost always white) porcelain "offering" dishes and vases.

Sakaki Date - these are vases that hold leaves from the Sakaki tree, an indigenous Evergreen in Japan. Nowadays, plastic greenery is used as it is usually changed out on an almost daily basis and finding or growing a Sakaki tree in the US in very, very tough. This is used to represent nature and our place/role in it.

Mizutama - this is a small rounded vessel that contains fresh water, an offering to the kami.

Tokkuri - these are small covered bottles filled with O-miki, a ritually purified sake or rice wine.

Sanpo - this is a small offering plate that is made of wood. The shingu set (defined above) sits on this tray. You don't always find this component being used. In this image it is, so I included it.

Sara - these are the two round offering saucers that hold Oshio (salt) and Okome (washed rice).

Daruma Ningyo - this is not pictured, but for a reason. This is a small personal item that the head of the dojo would place there. Many times what you will find there is a small red and round doll which represents the founder of Zen Buddhism (Daruma). This is supposed to represents the setting and then achieving of one’s goals in Japanese culture. Sometimes you will see just one eye painted on the doll. This is to mean that a goal has been set. When you see both eyes are drawn or colored in, that means a goal has been achieved. Other than the doll, you might find a katana, a jo, etc.

***NOTE: Even though Buddhism is a totally and completely different philosophy from the religion or beliefs of Shinto, the Japanese do not raise issue with these elements sharing the same space as both of them are widely accepted practices. This is an example:



There are a couple of other components that could be added, but I will leave them out for now. If anyone is interested, let me know.

LASTLY (or FINALLY! LOL)

The kamiza is the "place of honor". For martial artists, it is where we would have images of those from our legacy past. For instance, if I am a Goju-ryu dojo, I would probably have an image of Higaonna Kanryo, Miyagi Chojun and then someone like Higaonna Morio or Miyazato Eiichi, Yagi Meitoku (etc).

Here is a higher level look at what I am referring to:



Really, lastly....and this is really important...if you don't follow Shinto and are a good ole fashioned Southern Baptist or Roman Catholic or atheist, none of this is considered "worship" of anyone or anything. It is just a matter of of paying respects to our heritage and those that came before us and on whose shoulders we stand. It is nothing more than symbolic to most. And, really, it serves more as a focal point than anything else.

Hope that helps and was informative.
_________________
For me bujutsu is not a set of techniques, but a state of the body. Once the principles are integrated, the techniques surge spontaneously because the body is capable of adapting instantaneously.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1817
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was more info than I expected and I love it! Thanks for explaining that to me in such depth. When I googled it I didn't get any results so I wasn't sure what to think about it. I thought that it might be a weapon of some sort. I looked around and asked a few people but couldn't find anything other than a couple of people offering to build one for me, which is great for me but doesn't help you. I'll keep an eye out for you, though.
_________________
Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

tatsujin
Member of the Month
Member of the Month

Joined: 12 Oct 2021
Posts: 53

Styles: Ryusei-ha Ryukyu Kempo Karate-jutsu

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zaine wrote:
That was more info than I expected and I love it! Thanks for explaining that to me in such depth. When I googled it I didn't get any results so I wasn't sure what to think about it. I thought that it might be a weapon of some sort. I looked around and asked a few people but couldn't find anything other than a couple of people offering to build one for me, which is great for me but doesn't help you. I'll keep an eye out for you, though.


Thanks for the kind words! I am an "information" kind of guy, so I can drone on in postings! LOL! But, I am the kind of person where too much information is better than not enough. And, I don't have a social life...so there is that....

Thanks again!
_________________
For me bujutsu is not a set of techniques, but a state of the body. Once the principles are integrated, the techniques surge spontaneously because the body is capable of adapting instantaneously.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2566
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My late Sensei bought his on Okinawa, and it cost him around $200, IIRC. I can't say I've seen them for sale for less than that, here in the US, unless they are rather small. If a small one would work for you, I think I've seen a couple on Amazon. You could always build your own, as well?
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker, Adrian Rivera
Karate Obsession | Arizona Practical Karate
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

tallgeese
KF VIP

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6862
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really appreciated the insight, tatsujin!!! As a guy who can overlook the finer points of tradition and culture, I really appreciate it when I get to learn something like this! Very cool.
_________________
http://alphajiujitsu.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhRVuwbm__LwXPvFMReMww
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Equipment and Gear All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Page 1 of 1
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >