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Himokiri Karate
Green Belt
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Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 391

Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:46 pm    Post subject: Paperwork for teaching karate? Reply with quote

I have been showing friends karate techniques and practicing my teaching skills by training them on a more informal setting. But now, I am ready to teach others but it seems like I need some type of paper work done?

Can someone tell me what the legalities of teaching is in respect to avoiding lawsuits?

Also what kind of insurance do I need and how do I apply for them?
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Nidan Melbourne
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Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2314
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Insurance typically you need Public Liability and a Comprehensive Insurance. And all you need to is google the different companies that offer those and covers Martial Arts specifically.
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Himokiri Karate
Green Belt
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Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 391

Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nidan Melbourne wrote:
For Insurance typically you need Public Liability and a Comprehensive Insurance. And all you need to is google the different companies that offer those and covers Martial Arts specifically.



Thanks Nidan, one thing is, I checked and different companies are offering different rate. What is the average monthly cost for insurance and public liability?
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2314
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Himokiri Karate wrote:
Nidan Melbourne wrote:
For Insurance typically you need Public Liability and a Comprehensive Insurance. And all you need to is google the different companies that offer those and covers Martial Arts specifically.



Thanks Nidan, one thing is, I checked and different companies are offering different rate. What is the average monthly cost for insurance and public liability?


Obviously it will vary country to country, but from what i've seen some are on the cheaper end of the scale (approx $50-60/month) to some being several hundred dollars.

But at the end of the day the amount that your requesting and the excess will impact the cost.

At the moment all my private sessions are being covered by my senseis club, which I am quite fortunate. But I am only covered if my sessions are run out of his club.
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Patrick
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Joined: 01 May 2001
Posts: 28413
Location: Los Angeles, California

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey all,

The following posts were removed from this thread in error. I apologize.

Thanks,

Patrick

ashworth wrote:
Depends what country you are in? I know a little about how to go about it in the UK...

To be honest the best thing you can do is seek advise from your own instructor, so approach them and hopefully get their blessing, maybe even see if you can assist them in classes to build your teaching experience. This is of course if you are part of a club to begin with?


sensei8 wrote:
Quote:
But now, I am ready to teach others but it seems like I need some type of paper work done?

I've only been a commercial dojo and retailer; that's the only job I've ever had. This has been my experience. The following is for those MA schools that are wanting to open a commercial one.

No matter what I might suggest in this post, I strongly advice that you contact the appropriate authorities in your Federal, State, and Local, as well as an attorney. A commercial MA school isn't a turnkey business, and many of what I list in this post might not be required per Federal, State, and Local laws and regulations. That's why I'm stating that it's best to get all of your ducks in a row before the ducks get knocked into the dirt.

You'll need a General Business License; $50 to $100 fee in most states. You will need to select Education business structure among the sole propriety, a partner, a corporation, or an LLC (Limited Liability Company).

A Tax License. However, most states require businesses to have a Tax License. Fees vary by the state anywhere from $12 to $50 per location. Most states require business owners to collect sales tax when selling taxable items or taxable services. If you your MA school us located in Oregon, there's no sales tax whatsoever. However, this license can be tricky because you may have to apply for multiple sales tax licenses across multiple states to avoid penalties.

A DBA (Doing Business As) Certificate; most states fee is $99. So, when I opened my Kyuodan Dojo, I had to apply for a DBA Certificate. I mean, while I'm a person, the business is not a person, so my dojo needed a DBA in order to operate.

A Sellers Permit, also called a State ID; most states fee is $10 to $100. Can't sell any MA related merchandise without the proper permit. If you're not selling anything, then you might not need a Sellers Permit. However, if you want to sell or buy Wholesale, then you'll need said permit.

A Federal AND State EIN (Employer Identification Number); cost is $29. A business needs an EIN in order to pay employees and to file business tax returns.

Pretty much all of these need to be renewed annually, and they also need to be displayed in plain sight so that the customers and/or the authorities can view them at their discretion.

Quote:
Can someone tell me what the legalities of teaching is in respect to avoiding lawsuits?

Again, speak to an attorney.

Imho, anything you do and/or don't do can put you and/or your MA school in some serious hot water. Dealing with the public can be dicey. Anything you do that's wrong, will get someone's attention quickly. Be an ethical and integrity business all of the time, that way, you can keep you head above water; a business and person can be sued for anything.

You don't want to take checks, then put sign(s) up wherever necessary. Signage takes the guess work out for the customers, but customers will challenge each and every sign. You want ALL SALES FINAL, then put some signs up in plain view. You want tuition paid by a certain time? Signs!! Don't forget to add the words...NO EXCEPTIONS!!

Don't be abusive to your Student Body in any shape, way, and/or form...NO EXCEPTIONS!!

Visit a attorney, many offer free consultation.

Quote:
Also what kind of insurance do I need and how do I apply for them?

You already know that you need Public Liability insurance. Things happen to your students, third party property, your employees, and yourself.

There's several insurance companies that do MA school insurance. Just like car insurance, you're going to have to call around to get quotes and this and that. Policies and costs vary.

If you're teaching at home, and you've these questions to ask, I'd find some commercial space. That's me. Wastelander runs his school from his home in Arizona, so perhaps, he's the person to ask these questions.

Good luck, Himokiri Karate.




crash wrote:
sensei8 covers it quite well. the DBA and llc status will separate and help protect you in case of a lawsuit. if you are teaching out of your house you absolutely have to have this or your home and property is in jeopardy of being included in any suits. insurance is a must regardless. a commercial space is always preferable. with any business you need as much separation as possible between your personal property and the business. the business is an entity of its own. keep it separate. as others have stated, see an attorney, go to your local city hall and they can steer you in the direction of what licenses, inspections (yes there will be health dept. inspections, structural bldg inspectors etc... the safety of any customers is always foremost), etc... to follow, but an attorney can help set up the business entity, and paperwork needed. and as others have stated also, dont rely on asking for solid info on the net...sure, people can help, but if you want to do this right, then you need an attorney and you have to follow the rules of your jurisdiction, shortcutting and skimping because you cant yet meet the requirements or just dont want to, is a sure way to fail and will lead to more severe problems down the road....do it right from the start and it will grow and go smoothly.. start with getting info from your local city hall / courthouse, make an appointment with a business lawyer, and go from there.....good luck


sensei8 wrote:
crash wrote:
sensei8 covers it quite well. the DBA and llc status will separate and help protect you in case of a lawsuit. if you are teaching out of your house you absolutely have to have this or your home and property is in jeopardy of being included in any suits. insurance is a must regardless. a commercial space is always preferable. with any business you need as much separation as possible between your personal property and the business. the business is an entity of its own. keep it separate. as others have stated, see an attorney, go to your local city hall and they can steer you in the direction of what licenses, inspections (yes there will be health dept. inspections, structural bldg inspectors etc... the safety of any customers is always foremost), etc... to follow, but an attorney can help set up the business entity, and paperwork needed. and as others have stated also, dont rely on asking for solid info on the net...sure, people can help, but if you want to do this right, then you need an attorney and you have to follow the rules of your jurisdiction, shortcutting and skimping because you cant yet meet the requirements or just dont want to, is a sure way to fail and will lead to more severe problems down the road....do it right from the start and it will grow and go smoothly.. start with getting info from your local city hall / courthouse, make an appointment with a business lawyer, and go from there.....good luck

Solid post!!

With my previous post, I only listed the most common required permits and licenses for a commercial business. Some other permits and licenses that you might also need...

*Zoning and Building Permit
*Property Use Permit
*Certification of Occupancy
*Professional License
*Fire and Police Department Permit
*Withholding Tax Registration

With my dojo, a City Inspector visit was required first before I could open the doors of my dojo. The City Inspector checked EVERYTHING. Everything from the sink to the electric outlets to anything attached to my dojo on the inside and the outside. My dojo had to meet every city code before I opened the doors. Worse code violation I ever had was to have a plumber install a pea-trap for the bathroom sinks. Once the City Inspector was satisfied, he handed me the copy of the inspection, which then I took to the necessary authority to complete my permits, certificates, and licenses.

Stand up for yourself and your business but if you make the city upset at you and/or your business, heavy fines can be levied. My brother owns a very successful auto repair shop in CA, and the city his business is in, him and the city have been at war for sometimes. Some battles are worth the fight, and others aren't.

Being in business is quite rewarding but at the same time, owning a business has its drawbacks from time to time; part of the fun.




Himokiri Karate wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Quote:
But now, I am ready to teach others but it seems like I need some type of paper work done?

I've only been a commercial dojo and retailer; that's the only job I've ever had. This has been my experience. The following is for those MA schools that are wanting to open a commercial one.

No matter what I might suggest in this post, I strongly advice that you contact the appropriate authorities in your Federal, State, and Local, as well as an attorney. A commercial MA school isn't a turnkey business, and many of what I list in this post might not be required per Federal, State, and Local laws and regulations. That's why I'm stating that it's best to get all of your ducks in a row before the ducks get knocked into the dirt.

You'll need a General Business License; $50 to $100 fee in most states. You will need to select Education business structure among the sole propriety, a partner, a corporation, or an LLC (Limited Liability Company).

A Tax License. However, most states require businesses to have a Tax License. Fees vary by the state anywhere from $12 to $50 per location. Most states require business owners to collect sales tax when selling taxable items or taxable services. If you your MA school us located in Oregon, there's no sales tax whatsoever. However, this license can be tricky because you may have to apply for multiple sales tax licenses across multiple states to avoid penalties.

A DBA (Doing Business As) Certificate; most states fee is $99. So, when I opened my Kyuodan Dojo, I had to apply for a DBA Certificate. I mean, while I'm a person, the business is not a person, so my dojo needed a DBA in order to operate.

A Sellers Permit, also called a State ID; most states fee is $10 to $100. Can't sell any MA related merchandise without the proper permit. If you're not selling anything, then you might not need a Sellers Permit. However, if you want to sell or buy Wholesale, then you'll need said permit.

A Federal AND State EIN (Employer Identification Number); cost is $29. A business needs an EIN in order to pay employees and to file business tax returns.

Pretty much all of these need to be renewed annually, and they also need to be displayed in plain sight so that the customers and/or the authorities can view them at their discretion.

Quote:
Can someone tell me what the legalities of teaching is in respect to avoiding lawsuits?

Again, speak to an attorney.

Imho, anything you do and/or don't do can put you and/or your MA school in some serious hot water. Dealing with the public can be dicey. Anything you do that's wrong, will get someone's attention quickly. Be an ethical and integrity business all of the time, that way, you can keep you head above water; a business and person can be sued for anything.

You don't want to take checks, then put sign(s) up wherever necessary. Signage takes the guess work out for the customers, but customers will challenge each and every sign. You want ALL SALES FINAL, then put some signs up in plain view. You want tuition paid by a certain time? Signs!! Don't forget to add the words...NO EXCEPTIONS!!

Don't be abusive to your Student Body in any shape, way, and/or form...NO EXCEPTIONS!!

Visit a attorney, many offer free consultation.

Quote:
Also what kind of insurance do I need and how do I apply for them?

You already know that you need Public Liability insurance. Things happen to your students, third party property, your employees, and yourself.

There's several insurance companies that do MA school insurance. Just like car insurance, you're going to have to call around to get quotes and this and that. Policies and costs vary.

If you're teaching at home, and you've these questions to ask, I'd find some commercial space. That's me. Wastelander runs his school from his home in Arizona, so perhaps, he's the person to ask these questions.

Good luck, Himokiri Karate.





Thank you sensei8/Bob. I checked and in Canada our LLC is BIN or Business incorporation number as the alternate method. I am taking everything you said and finding the Canadian version.

Thanks again, your post has been very helpful. I am also talking to a bank that works with a company that helps people with the paper work for starting a business.

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