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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
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Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject: Reacting to the United Airlines Passenger Removal Reply with quote

This came up in conversation just the other day. I recall watching the video of the Airport Security person removing the gentleman from his seat and thinking how I might react (I might have gotten one of the officers, but would probably be removed from the plane in much worse shape than the gentleman in the video.)

Did anyone else have a similar reaction?
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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6148
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In situations like this I'd like to think I'd stand up and with hindsight it seems easy to criticise people who don't. However the Bystander Effect is a very real thing.
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Bulltahr
Brown Belt
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Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 615
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Styles: Shotokan, Seido Juku

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway that you try to handle that situation the end result will be the same, you will lose. (The battle) The rights and wrongs are a different topic, but in that situation you will come out on the wrong side of the battle. No-one will jump up and help you....
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1723

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The man made a foolish decision to resist and ended up getting injured due to his lack of better judgment. The entire physical struggle was both trivial and unnecessary. Much trouble, aggravation and pain on both sides was entirely avoidable if only the man had swallowed his pride and sense of entitlement.

It was his choice to stubbornly refuse to move and cause the authorities to remove him by force. His choice again to resist when said authorities came to do their job. What happened was no surprise at all given the man's behaviour. A wiser man would have quietly moved or left on his own and taken up legal and service issues with the concerned parties afterwards, instead of causing a commotion and inconveniencing everyone else around. If he had done that, then perhaps he might have had some recourse, instead he chose to act belligerent and got injured for his trouble.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no intentions on arguing whether one side was justified or not.

The whole point me bringing this up was simply to emphasize that my training has changed the way I think about situations. I started TKD about 2 years ago. Before then, I only had small encounters with the martial arts, and my instincts were different.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
In situations like this I'd like to think I'd stand up and with hindsight it seems easy to criticise people who don't. However the Bystander Effect is a very real thing.


Excellent point! I've actually felt this in effect. We were doing "first response" training at work, and a planted individual faked a seizure during the session. Most people froze, but one of our nursing instructors sprung into action - she was calm and methodical in her approach. Training pays off!
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DWx
KF Sensei
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6148
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

singularity6 wrote:
DWx wrote:
In situations like this I'd like to think I'd stand up and with hindsight it seems easy to criticise people who don't. However the Bystander Effect is a very real thing.


Excellent point! I've actually felt this in effect. We were doing "first response" training at work, and a planted individual faked a seizure during the session. Most people froze, but one of our nursing instructors sprung into action - she was calm and methodical in her approach. Training pays off!

Yeah I think most would be surprised how susceptible they are to this effect. I remember crashing my car once off the road, no-one was hurt but I was a teenager at the time. No-one stopped to help. I had to call my dad to come and get me and at least 20 cars just drove straight past without stopping to see if I was OK. From personal experience I think the bystander effect is even worse when we have to physically change what we are doing to help, like pulling over and getting out of the car, or getting out of our assigned airline seat.

In fact just the other week I was driving and the cars in front of me were all swerving to avoid something in the road. I got closer and it turned out it was a little Yorkshire Terrier that had gotten into the road. No-one was stopping I guess under the belief that someone else, not them, would sort it out. I ended up pulling my car over to grab the puppy and as soon as I did, the two cars behind me stopped to help.
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mazzybear
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 30 Oct 2013
Posts: 659
Location: Scotland.
Styles: Wado Kai

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
singularity6 wrote:
DWx wrote:
In situations like this I'd like to think I'd stand up and with hindsight it seems easy to criticise people who don't. However the Bystander Effect is a very real thing.


Excellent point! I've actually felt this in effect. We were doing "first response" training at work, and a planted individual faked a seizure during the session. Most people froze, but one of our nursing instructors sprung into action - she was calm and methodical in her approach. Training pays off!

Yeah I think most would be surprised how susceptible they are to this effect. I remember crashing my car once off the road, no-one was hurt but I was a teenager at the time. No-one stopped to help. I had to call my dad to come and get me and at least 20 cars just drove straight past without stopping to see if I was OK. From personal experience I think the bystander effect is even worse when we have to physically change what we are doing to help, like pulling over and getting out of the car, or getting out of our assigned airline seat.

In fact just the other week I was driving and the cars in front of me were all swerving to avoid something in the road. I got closer and it turned out it was a little Yorkshire Terrier that had gotten into the road. No-one was stopping I guess under the belief that someone else, not them, would sort it out. I ended up pulling my car over to grab the puppy and as soon as I did, the two cars behind me stopped to help.



It's not just the bystander effect though, in the technology age many folk are too busy trying to video an incident rather than try and help out in any way. Just about a year or two ago, I remember reading about a woman down in England somewhere, she had fallen from the train platform on to the tracks (having some kind of seizure if I remember correctly) and rather than trying to help this woman, everybody got their phones out and started filming. I was absolutely horrified, where has people's humanity gone?

Eventually somebody bravely jumped down and helped her but, is catching something on film more important than helping out a fellow human being?



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