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ashworth
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 513
Location: UK
Styles: Kankoko No Ryu, shotokan, IJR Karate, Iaido

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like what has been said, I believe that both have their place, and I teach both realistic and sport karate.

We need the realistic teachings so that we don't go out into the world in fairy land, arguing with an attacker because he hit you after you clearly scored a point first, there is no referee on the street, its your responsibility to stop the fight...

and at the same time I believe that the athleticism gained from sport karate can be good to help keep you in shape and be help increase your speed and reactions, both which could help in realistic situations.

In my classes I do make a point of saying whether its for self defence or for sport so that the students are aware of what they are aiming for.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2165


PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally my sport martial arts aspects are behind me. Focusing solely on reality based ma.

There is far more freedom in reality based ma due to the absence of rules and regulations.

The use of padding are not needed in RBMA also weapon and surroundings take on a whole new meaning. As surroundings or found weapons can be used to one's advantage.

RBMA doesn't relying on sequential time limits and a support system to back you up.

Making use of RBMA cam make a SBMA more efficient due to the no nonsense reality training needed to be successful in combat.
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1718

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is very, very rare that an instructor is able to teach both sport and another aspect of martial arts without compromising either one. Great instructors are great precisely because they do not attempt to teach anything but the path they have chosen. They are true to their skills and believe fully in whatever aspect they work to pass on.

Students are also most likely to uphold all or most of what they were taught if and when they become instructors. Whether one teaches mostly a competitive sporting style or a system strictly made for defense depends largely on what one was taught and one's most influential teachers.

A good clue to answer that question for oneself is to identify the purpose and focus of what is being learned. If competition of any kind or 'winning' is; encouraged or participation in tournaments is expected, there is a strong possibility that the focus maybe more sport than anything else.

Some dojo or Instructors may try to combine several aspects, but there is always one that is prevalent. Any honest teacher will be able to give a straight answer if asked respectfully and politely enough at the right time.
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gunner
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Posts: 61

Styles: Karate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are apects of MA training like conditioning, striking and grappling that translate to street fighting. I have to think that a martial arts practioner would have a better chance than the same person non-practitioner. Then again, I've met advanced belts that suck at fighting. MA didn't help them.

That's where it comes back to the individual. Some people are more natural skilled or train harder and better fighters.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2165


PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thoughts and comments thus far.

How does reality based ma training differ from sport ma?

Is the conditioning process the same, or do they differ?

Martial arts by it's name is not a sport. How martial arts is still called by something that it is not? Like a sunset, we know the sun doesn't set science has proved that point, but the name has stuck. Martial art sports sounds like a contradiction.

Children and younger people compete in sport ma more than adults. Is ma a younger people pastime or hobby now?

Or is there something undignified about two old martial artist slogging it out, trying to win a plastic trophy?

While the senior older overweight out of shape martial artists eventually steer towards reality based martial arts?


Last edited by Alan Armstrong on Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gunner
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Posts: 61

Styles: Karate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm 52 years old and I train with the young adults and teenagers. I'm in as good or better cardio condition as they are.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2165


PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm older than 52 (more like 60) and have no trouble keeping up with the younger one's also. I don't spend unnecessary energy as the youngsters do, just do the job ASAP.

Funny comment
One student said to me "Go easy on him, he's alot younger than you"
Only by 40 years. Younger people have much to learn LOL

Through ma training I'm lucky enough to be physically 20 years younger than I am assumed to be.

Martial arts (personally) is about learing to defending my self physically from those that are:

Bigger,
Stronger,
Quicker,
Younger,


Last edited by Alan Armstrong on Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gunner
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Posts: 61

Styles: Karate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just push myself to the max on cardio becuase I learned many years ago it's he who loses his wind that struggles to defend.

I also hit the gym on non-dojo days to lift weights and do HIIT cardio.

My friends ask me why I do it. I tell them I'm not going MMA, I just push myself to be the best I can. I owe most of it to my ancestors who gave me good genes.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2165


PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great inspiration you are gunner.

The more you know the more (informed) choices you have. knowledge is a powerful tool, especially for martial artists.

The merging of reality and sport martial arts equals "Blood sport" this equation also equates to death.

Martial artists that turn to mma should become well aware of the dangers of competing this way.
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RW
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 323


PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where does one draw the line?

I have seen plenty of "reality based" martial arts that in my opinion, are not more applicable to reality than some "sport" martial arts.

How many can confidently say they would be able to apply the following technique at a bar brawl or parking lot fight? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iD61bfGHM0

I'd much rather use a flashy, "fantasy" technique from some of the sport-based martial arts, such as this kick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WCrSij0XP4

and surprise, sometimes such sports-oriented techniques transition to MMA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9ffk1iErHc

In my opinion the line between "real" and "sports" martial arts is blurred and it's hard to tell the difference. Even the most reality-based martial art is subject to rules that do not match reality, e.g. boxers don't kick, muay thai fighters do not fight on the ground, BJJ guys don't punch each other, etc.

And then you have martial arts that teach techniques such as groin kicks, eye gouges, throat rips, etc. The problem with them is that nobody can actually practice such moves, at most they can be drilled. A move can't truly be mastered to the point it can be applied in a life or death situation, when conditions are unpredictable and adrenaline is flowing unless such move has been practiced against a fully resisting opponent, with the intention of actually executing such a move (so in other words, actually gouging somebody's eye, ripping his throat or smashing his groin), it's sort of like practicing swimming in land.

There is no truly bad martial art
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