Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Weapons
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:
Everybody has their preferred methods of protecting steel tools and weapons, and while there are some that are simply objectively better for certain applications, a lot of it boils down to personal preference. You should never use a petroleum-based oil or lubricant on steel that is going to be kept in a leather sheath or pouch, for example, because the petroleum will break down the leather. For sai, in particular, you have several options.

If you are just doing kata and don't care about traditional looks, you can paint them with automotive paint, or something similar. It holds up well, and if it does chip it can be touched up.

If you want something more traditional than paint, MatsuShinshii's suggestion of a gun bluing kit is excellent. Parkerizing kits are good, too, but more expensive and take more work. For forced patinas, I prefer a vinegar soak over mustard, but anything acidic will do.


Parkerizing is an excellent suggestion. If you have the time/ money it a great option. Galvanizing and electro- plating are excellent choices as well.

I would be concerned with any type of paint or pray on substances because it lays on the surface. If using the Sai against another weapon it's going to chip.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Tempest
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 420
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
Tempest wrote:
singularity6 wrote:
I don't think I'd use vaseline... it's too heavy.

Here are a series of helpful videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCspvA264iw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_WtfUULJAg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDYTKzSuzZU


I didn't think so either till a blacksmith friend of mine got me to start doing it with my steel weapons, and by god it worked.

I am not a smith, just a man who spends a lot of time with steel weapons in his hand. If something works, and is recommended by a blacksmith, I am gonna use it.


The Vaseline acts as a barrier to moisture. It definitely will work but it's also very slick. If it gets on the handle it's difficult to remove.

I don't know if I would feel safe wielding a steel weapon with the possibility of it sliding out of my hands. I use mineral oil. And put it on very thin with a rag. A very thin coal is all you really need since its a barrier between the steel and moisture.

I'll try the Vaseline out. I guess if you've used it with success and have first hand knowledge it's worth trying. Have you had any issues getting it off when you use them? Does it make it slick. Just curious before I give it a try.

Hate to end up looking like a unicorn if it slips out of my hand and ends up in my forehead.


I am pretty careful about keeping it off my handles, so it isn't really an issue for me. I also have too many weapons and use them too often to use a pure leather scabbard. I just keep mine in a duffel bag. I also fight outside in humid environments sometimes, so there is plenty of need for moisture protection. I have found that thinner oils, such as mineral oil or vegetable based oils just do not hold up as well as I would like.
_________________
Think first, act second, and stop getting the two confused.

darsksideofthemat.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try a silicone based spray.
_________________
"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching

"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In one of the videos I posted, he put a product on that bonded with the rust. It changed the color of the metal slightly, but since it bonded with the steel on a molecular level, it was far more durable.
_________________
5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Tempest
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 420
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LLLEARNER wrote:
Try a silicone based spray.


That is what is in the 3-in-1 that I use for cleaning sometimes. But it is more expensive than Vaseline and so far, at least, the Vaseline is working well.
_________________
Think first, act second, and stop getting the two confused.

darsksideofthemat.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tempest wrote:
LLLEARNER wrote:
Try a silicone based spray.


That is what is in the 3-in-1 that I use for cleaning sometimes. But it is more expensive than Vaseline and so far, at least, the Vaseline is working well.


I was just thinking it would be less messy.
_________________
"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching

"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Tempest
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 420
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LLLEARNER wrote:
Tempest wrote:
LLLEARNER wrote:
Try a silicone based spray.


That is what is in the 3-in-1 that I use for cleaning sometimes. But it is more expensive than Vaseline and so far, at least, the Vaseline is working well.


I was just thinking it would be less messy.

Oh, it is. But Vaseline is not bad if you don't use too much of it.
The silicone sprays are nice sometimes, but they have the same issue most lightweight oils do, they don't last with LOTS of handling.

I have backed off now, to focus on Judo and Jiujitsu more, but I am still getting my weapons out and fighting/sparring every week. When I was fighting a LOT it was 3-5 times a week. This leads to some slightly different problems with regards to weapons care.
For instance, my blades mostly live in the trunk of my car. There is no point in carrying a 60 pound sack of leather, plastic, and steel in and out every day.
This is not a real climate controlled environment. It is water tight, but temperature can be an issue for some oils. I live in an area where the average daily temp is, for several months of the year, above 32c. The Vaseline solution was arrived at after I had already tried oils and silicone for quite some time.
The guy who gave me the tip is a fellow fighter who is also a blacksmith who makes a lot of his own kit, and showed me that this is what he does. I am not saying it is the only way, but I know for a fact that it does work.
_________________
Think first, act second, and stop getting the two confused.

darsksideofthemat.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Struggling_Mudansha
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 61


PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as an update, the rust has gotten so bad on my sai that I was getting concerned that they were becoming a health risk. I took some of my 0000 steel wool that I use to polish guitar frets and gave my sai a nice rundown. It certainly helped a lot, but I couldn't get rid of all the rust with wool alone. I'll probably use a removing agent a little on down the road.

Stainless steel sai are still on my radar because this maintenance work was quite dirty and the wool and rust dust aggravated my asthma quite a bit. I realize stainless steel is not completely rust proof; it's just stainless steel would have a much longer lifespan.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stainless steel shouldn't rust on its own. If it does, I suspect it's in contact with an electrically dissimilar metal, which causes a galvanic action.

When it comes to doing anything that causes dust, it's always wise to wear a mask - asthma or no.
_________________
5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Struggling_Mudansha wrote:
Just as an update, the rust has gotten so bad on my sai that I was getting concerned that they were becoming a health risk. I took some of my 0000 steel wool that I use to polish guitar frets and gave my sai a nice rundown. It certainly helped a lot, but I couldn't get rid of all the rust with wool alone. I'll probably use a removing agent a little on down the road.

Stainless steel sai are still on my radar because this maintenance work was quite dirty and the wool and rust dust aggravated my asthma quite a bit. I realize stainless steel is not completely rust proof; it's just stainless steel would have a much longer lifespan.


As with producing a patina and also etching steel, vinegar also removes rust.

Soak the sai in white vinegar for 8 hrs or so (do not heat it). Wipe the rusty paste of with a shop rag or what ever you have. there will still be a bit of surface rust on the metal. Spray some WD-40 on and use your steel wool to remove the remaining skin. Clean the surface off and apply a thin layer of oil. I use mineral oil but you can just re-apply the WD-40 if you wish.

This will eliminate the dust and cut down on the elbow grease. Hope this helps.

Note: Check the Sai periodically through the day (about every hour). Vinegar is a mild acid and over time (more quickly when heated) it will eat away at the steel like any other acid. Since you have a large degree of rust you will not have any issues but it always best to check on it. It may require less or more time depending on how much rust you have.

The benefit to using Vinegar over other commercial acids is its not as aggressive. That and you don't have to worry about eating your skin if it comes into contact with it. Good luck.

What ever you do stop sanding the rust when it's dry unless you have a good respirator. If nothing else use a little WD-40 with your steel wool if you do not want to try the vinegar. Your lungs will thank you.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Weapons All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >