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RichardZ
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 624
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 Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject: Self Defense vs Classroom Applications |
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Nowadays, many do not desire to spend countless hours in learning traditional forms, weapons, pressure points, etc., to where RBSD (Reality Based Self Defense, or RBD) or Reality Based Martial Arts, seemed to have sprouted up like wild daisies.
Gone are elaborate or high kicking, elaborate ideals of so many places where to strike, multiple patterns of blocking, etc. Key words are practical, applicable, probable/improbable, and environment.
People like Marc McYoung, Iain Abernethy, Geoff Thompson, Bas Rutten, Robert Bathol, Imrich Lichtenfeld, Gerry Nolan, Bruce Tegner, Jim Wagner, to name a slight few, have come to realise the importance of defense fighting as applied to actual, out of class confrontations.
The root of self defense is not what is workable in the classroom or school, but what is one subjected to in a social-cultural environment for which they would be more likely be exposed.
This is not to state, that one should not study other methods to gain versitility, but one should not put too much focus on such methods slighlty indiffferent to said environment.
The phrase-quote; "fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times", has only a half truth.
The other half to this is; it depends on what or how effective said "one practiced" kick is. It is no use to practice something for so long without a practical application and force it to work in another. |
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Ichi_Geki
Blue Belt
Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 316
Styles: Director of Fudoshin Machi Dojo
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:11 am Post subject: Re: Self Defense vs Classroom Applications |
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Hmmm I respect all those names of who you have listed, not because I follow everything they do, but because of their hard work and determination...but.
The goal of lets say Kara Te Do. Is not to learn how to fight, it is to learn how to defend and stave. Striking can be easily done, but it takes skill to be able to defend completely.
Our goal in Kara Te Do is to live a life that we do not have to use our techniques, so that we may live peacefully training, for the day we may need to use it. For this matter we never really know the true extent of our power. But for this we have tournaments and exhibitions. Even which most of us traditionalists do not attend because of the increasing sports like usage.
If you spend your life perfecting something, it is going to work. If you train daily in bunkai you will see the techniques. Kata is not meant to fight with. kata is like opening up an encyclopedia or a dictionary and finding out what you want to know. Then you can figure out how to use it the way you want to from there.
So many people look at kata and ask...how can that be used?...Well if you train long enough you will find out. If you want to learn to fight, you got it...punch, kick, punch, kick...any one can do this.
But we are about dedication and preservation. We want to pass on what was once used, EFFECTIVELY. We just do not know how to make it effective anymore, and with that matter we all end up giving up, in a hopeless fury...BECAUSE we cannot FIGURE IT OUT. This is what you call the modern way of wanting things hot and ready, and not wanting to wait. Well I got news for you. Bas Rutten did not achieve his status over night. He trained many long hard years to get where he is. So what is the difference I ask...that his style is more physical than traditional Kara Te Do? That his is more flashier than Classical Kara Te Do. These are the exact reasons why people such as myself operate "machi dojo" private training halls where we choose who we wish to teach. So that we can guarantee that you have the mental conditioning of what it takes for out art. |
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RichardZ
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 624
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:10 am Post subject: |
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Well, I didnt want to turn this thread into the purpose of Kata, and such. I thiink there maybe a thead devoted to the pros and/or cons of kata-bunkai, or a traditiona verses _______,
My many classroom, few arts, few instructors per study corresponds in my real life course, but it differs in few aspects. Esp defense and social order-functions. |
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WireFrame
Orange Belt
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 213
Styles: Shotokan
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| As with many things I think the best approach is a mix of all that is available to you. |
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Ichi_Geki
Blue Belt
Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 316
Styles: Director of Fudoshin Machi Dojo
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| RichardZ wrote: |
Well, I didnt want to turn this thread into the purpose of Kata, and such. I thiink there maybe a thead devoted to the pros and/or cons of kata-bunkai, or a traditiona verses _______,
My many classroom, few arts, few instructors per study corresponds in my real life course, but it differs in few aspects. Esp defense and social order-functions. |
Kata was my example. IF you train at anything you can make it effective. You just have to know what you are doing. I can point out a use and a practical use for anything in Kata and in kihon. And this is where my self defense curriculum comes from. And it is effective, I had to use it before myself.
And if I may...you brought up traditional forms in your first post.
Now for Kyushu Jutsu or Pressure points,
They are effective if you train at them also...but if you learn one technique...and you think your able to beat someone off the street...your in it for all the wrong reasons and you shouldnt even be attempting to 'learn' |
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tufrthanu
Brown Belt
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 686
Location: Minnetonka, MN
Styles: American Tae Kwon Do, Sin Moo HKD, WHF HKD, Song Moo Kwan TKD
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:07 am Post subject: |
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Jim Wagner thinks a wrist lock in combat fatigues is more effective than a wrist lock in a dobok. Thats just nonsense.
Most MA classes are run like biology in college. You have Class room and Lab. Forms are your book learnin, SD and Sparring is your lab.
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Long Live the Fighters! |
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cymry
Purple Belt
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Wales, Great Britain
Styles: BJJ, freestyle wrestling
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:03 am Post subject: Re: Self Defense vs Classroom Applications |
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| RichardZ wrote: |
Nowadays, many do not desire to spend countless hours in learning traditional forms, weapons, pressure points, etc., to where RBSD (Reality Based Self Defense, or RBD) or Reality Based Martial Arts, seemed to have sprouted up like wild daisies.
Gone are elaborate or high kicking, elaborate ideals of so many places where to strike, multiple patterns of blocking, etc. Key words are practical, applicable, probable/improbable, and environment.
People like Marc McYoung, Iain Abernethy, Geoff Thompson, Bas Rutten, Robert Bathol, Imrich Lichtenfeld, Gerry Nolan, Bruce Tegner, Jim Wagner, to name a slight few, have come to realise the importance of defense fighting as applied to actual, out of class confrontations.
The root of self defense is not what is workable in the classroom or school, but what is one subjected to in a social-cultural environment for which they would be more likely be exposed.
This is not to state, that one should not study other methods to gain versitility, but one should not put too much focus on such methods slighlty indiffferent to said environment.
The phrase-quote; "fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times", has only a half truth.
The other half to this is; it depends on what or how effective said "one practiced" kick is. It is no use to practice something for so long without a practical application and force it to work in another. |
So your point is, train against what you're likely to come up against in the real world? Like, with resistance and aliveness? Wow, that's a novel speech you just made. |
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on the post.
