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Harkon72
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 1875
Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.
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 Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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In a good school, the higher the grade, the safer the sparring. It's always the beginners that hurt you. Good Post MP.
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ShoriKid
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 900
Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling, bits of BJJ
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| MasterPain wrote: |
| sperki wrote: |
Really!? Isn't that sort of an assumed thing when you start with a martial art? I mean I expect the person that is teaching me to fight to be better at fighting than me....right? Maybe I'm just an optimist and more people are dumber than I expect.  |
Stick with it a while, you'll see it. |
Sperki,
Just wait. You will eventually run into the guy (it's always a guy and usually under 30) who thinks, and I quote, "That karate crap don't work in a fight". And when they come in to train, whether they say it up front or just harbor the thought, they are waiting for a chance to jump in with the instructor and "fight" when sparring. And, if the instructor doesn't lay a beating on them, with all the attached bumps and bruises, then they can't really fight and have nothing to teach them. I'm in a small town in the Appalachian Mountain region and it's common enough. Most guys get into a few scraps as teenagers and think that makes them a pretty good fighter. Most won't train. Those that do, about half start with the idea above and of that half most think after 6 weeks of training they've learned it all. As an instructor you have to keep your head on a swivel and be on the look out for that sort.
It's always on the lower belt to ask for lighter contact. Unless they are blasting away at the higher belt and have to be told to calm down and ease up. You get what you give, and many times when you're really into things you don't realize how hard you really are hitting. That's more likely for lower belts. Since you don't want to blast them, sometimes the upper belt needs to remind them to ease up. We usually follow the second or third warning to back down the contact with, "If you don't, you're going to get hit as hard as you're hitting." If you want to hit someone hard, expect to get hit just as hard. I've met more than a few lower belts that thought sparring with uppers meant they could go all out and it was cool and they wouldn't get hit back with the same force.
Sparring can be a fun and exciting training experience. However, everyone has to be on the same page as far as contact, have respect for one another and know that it's just sparring. It isn't a fight, you don't have to win and you aren't going to die from the experience.
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Kisshu fushin, Oni te hotoke kokoro. A demon's hand, a saint's heart. -- Osensei Shoshin Nagamine |
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Dobbersky
Black Belt
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 1323
Location: Manchester. United Kingdom
Styles: Black Tiger Ashihara Karate Jutsu, Japanese Kickboxing, Cheng Man Ch'ing TaiChi
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:31 am Post subject: |
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I got a rule in my Dojo, the lower grade controls the pace. So if the "expert" wants to "test" his skills then the higher graded students are happy to comply. When sparring for the first time, a student ALWAYS spars with me first. To see whether they're attending for an ego rush or genuinely want to learn something.
And for gradings they have to spar with me too, so they know they still got a lot to learn. At blackbelt I feel sorry for them as I don't hold back. Although this next grading, due to my knee injury I'm hoping my assistant senior instructor will do the honours.
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madtanker
Orange Belt
Joined: 16 Aug 2012
Posts: 117
Location: Toledo Ohio
Styles: Tang Soo Do/Hapkido
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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[quote="sperki"]Great post. In my limited experience, you've essentially summed up why I prefer sparring against an advanced martial artist. New people are out of control, and often, less predictable than senior students. Senior students tend to know how long their arms and legs are, and can (usually) dial their aggressiveness and tempo to match that of their sparring partner. It's not like my sensei needs to beat the snot out of me for me to know he can beat the snot out of me. When I started, he would stand there calmly and block everything I threw at him while occasionally giving me a swipe to make me block. It probably made me more confident in his ability both as a fighter and an instructor.[/quote]
Excellent summary as well! I was explaining this to a friend that was interested in learning from me, and sparring with me. He seemed more eager to learn how to 'beat people up' rather than learning the art. I explained to him that it is more effective to know how to get hit, where to place yoru strikes, and how hard to hit to cause, and to prevent, excessive damage. I explained that once you know how not to cause injuries, you can learn the art of defending yourself, not before.
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It is what you learn when you think you know everything that matters most! (unknown)
" I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself". (DH Lawrence)
"The only stupid question is the one that was never asked!!" (Me!!!) |
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madtanker
Orange Belt
Joined: 16 Aug 2012
Posts: 117
Location: Toledo Ohio
Styles: Tang Soo Do/Hapkido
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: |
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[quote="sperki"]Really!? Isn't that sort of an assumed thing when you start with a martial art? I mean I expect the person that is teaching me to fight to be better at fighting than me....right? Maybe I'm just an optimist and more people are dumber than I expect. [/quote]
Just because a person knows more of a specific martial art than you 1) does not mean that they are 'better', merely more knowledgeable. If they are trying to prove that they are better, it is up to you to ask for some leniency, this is not Kobra Kai... 2) it does not mean that they have a right to be abusive, we are all in this environment to learn, teach, and gather information from each other. If a person is trying to knock you out in a sparring session, instead of perfecting form for the sake of it, speak up and do not be afraid to do so, or you will do more harm than good, as will the person trying to ruin the spirit of education.
PS, people are not inherently dumb, stupidity is a learned art as well, mostly coming from being unable or afraid to speak up for one's self, ask questions, and to deal with trouble in an effective manner. Not every answer lies in the hands; all of them lie in the brain...
_________________
It is what you learn when you think you know everything that matters most! (unknown)
" I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself". (DH Lawrence)
"The only stupid question is the one that was never asked!!" (Me!!!) |
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Ryukyu_lover
White Belt
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Australia/ Japan
Styles: Ryukyuan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Great thread. Lower belts should have nothing to fear. The higher belts should be giving advice throughout the sparring. Tell the beginners how to move their feet, let them know their guard should be up.
Have them move in and out. It's not just the instructor that helps the lower belts. Everyone helps everyone. |
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steviewaddy82
Yellow Belt
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 64
Location: Walney Island. Barrow-In-Furness.Cumbria.
Styles: wado Ryu
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Very good topic. I have just turned 7th kyu in wado and started sparrimg this week and i was very nervy. Flinching at every attack and backing off. It was anoying because as you said it made me look weak. My question is. Will i grow out of flinching etc and how long could it take, thanks for ur time. Great forum |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| ShoriKid wrote: |
| MasterPain wrote: |
| sperki wrote: |
| Really!? Isn't that sort of an assumed thing when you start with a martial art? I mean I expect the person that is teaching me to fight to be better at fighting than me....right? Maybe I'm just an optimist and more people are dumber than I expect. |
Stick with it a while, you'll see it. |
Sperki,
Just wait. You will eventually run into the guy (it's always a guy and usually under 30) who thinks, and I quote, "That karate crap don't work in a fight". And when they come in to train, whether they say it up front or just harbor the thought, they are waiting for a chance to jump in with the instructor and "fight" when sparring. And, if the instructor doesn't lay a beating on them, with all the attached bumps and bruises, then they can't really fight and have nothing to teach them. I'm in a small town in the Appalachian Mountain region and it's common enough. Most guys get into a few scraps as teenagers and think that makes them a pretty good fighter. Most won't train. Those that do, about half start with the idea above and of that half most think after 6 weeks of training they've learned it all. As an instructor you have to keep your head on a swivel and be on the look out for that sort.
It's always on the lower belt to ask for lighter contact. Unless they are blasting away at the higher belt and have to be told to calm down and ease up. You get what you give, and many times when you're really into things you don't realize how hard you really are hitting. That's more likely for lower belts. Since you don't want to blast them, sometimes the upper belt needs to remind them to ease up. We usually follow the second or third warning to back down the contact with, "If you don't, you're going to get hit as hard as you're hitting." If you want to hit someone hard, expect to get hit just as hard. I've met more than a few lower belts that thought sparring with uppers meant they could go all out and it was cool and they wouldn't get hit back with the same force.
Sparring can be a fun and exciting training experience. However, everyone has to be on the same page as far as contact, have respect for one another and know that it's just sparring. It isn't a fight, you don't have to win and you aren't going to die from the experience. |
A very solid post!!
It's also the lower belts that will tag the upper belts...stop...go wide eyed...then say something like..."Ohhh, I got 'cha"...then they prance about as though they did something unbelievable...when in reality...the upper belt is controlling the sparring intensity instead of thumping and dumping the lower belt, and that's because that type of attitude from an instructor just doesn't teach the lower belt very much, if anything at all.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Dobbersky wrote: |
I got a rule in my Dojo, the lower grade controls the pace. So if the "expert" wants to "test" his skills then the higher graded students are happy to comply. When sparring for the first time, a student ALWAYS spars with me first. To see whether they're attending for an ego rush or genuinely want to learn something.
And for gradings they have to spar with me too, so they know they still got a lot to learn. At blackbelt I feel sorry for them as I don't hold back. Although this next grading, due to my knee injury I'm hoping my assistant senior instructor will do the honours. |
Solid post!!
Also, I too do as you do with students sparring for the first time. Then have those same students say to me..."How does someone as big as you move so fast and effortlessly?", my response usually..."I practice a lot!"
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Ryukyu_lover wrote: |
Great thread. Lower belts should have nothing to fear. The higher belts should be giving advice throughout the sparring. Tell the beginners how to move their feet, let them know their guard should be up.
Have them move in and out. It's not just the instructor that helps the lower belts. Everyone helps everyone. |
Solid post!! EVERYONE helps EVERYONE...that's it right there!!
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on the post.
