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Angus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2001
Posts: 1064
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2001 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Do any of u guys ever get the opportunity to full-contact spar against 2 or more opponents? I've actually had a street altercation with 3 guys before, and another one with only 2... Surprisingly i came out best on both of them. There's just something about the feeling u get from knowing that u can handle yourself against more than one person that makes all the difference in your self-esteem. I loce sparring against 2 guys, it's so fun, cos u find that you're at the advantage. Neither of them know what u'r gonna do and who to! If they rush at u then u barge through them and bounce around, pretend u'r gonna hit one but actually smack the other in the face... it's awesome!

Angus

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taezee
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 12 Jul 2001
Posts: 701
Location: Bayshore New York

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2001 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay hear that ringing sound thats your alarm clock ringing its time to wake up from your dream
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Angus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2001
Posts: 1064
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2001 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, yeah, maybe...

I'm just lucky that one of them wasn't a half decent fighter otherwise i would have been chook food! One had a knife though!

Lucky i'm not dead...

Angus

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shortdog
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 71


PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2001 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in my kobudo class, i took 3 guys, one with nunchucks and 2 with a bo. i did very well. with my escrima sticks. all weapons were padded of course. it is incredibly fun. then my teacher came in in rocked me.



SHORTDOG

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Angus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2001
Posts: 1064
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2001 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah...

I forgot to mention that i like to fight unarmed against someone with weapons... Damn i enjoy it!

Angus

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Tim Greer
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 25 Jun 2001
Posts: 173
Location: Northern California, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2001 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2001-08-11 00:20, Angus wrote:
Oh yeah...

I forgot to mention that i like to fight unarmed against someone with weapons... Damn i enjoy it!

Angus



Okay, we'll stand across the room from each other. I'll have a gun... and...

Anyway, definitely, when sparring and training, you should always train to deal with multiple attackers... always. if you don't, there's something wrong with your school -- assuming they just haven't because you aren't to the point where you can deal with that sort of training yet.. but...

Always practice with a few people, if you can. Put yourself in compromising situations. Such as people would do to you in a real fight. Someone might have you down on the ground and they might be kicking (and possibly hitting and jumping on you) from different sides and angles. You need to know how to get out of that situation with the least amount of harm, when you're on the ground and there's someone on each side of you kicking you in the ribs and face. You need to train to be able to deal with that, because you aren't likely going to have time to get out of it without being really hurt, without thinking quick and having some experience.

Also, and of course, different angles and sides and positions of attacks and what happens if "this" happens and when "that" happens, etc. Obviously it will come down to how quick you can think and how skilled you are and how inventive and adaptive you can be... that's the key. However, it's always good to get experience doing this, a lot, and you will have a huge advantage. Purposely put yourself in very awkward positions, seriously, anything that can happen if someone manages to get you basically tied up in a knot (almost, you get the point), and be able to do something about it, get out of there.

Always be ready to act, react, counter, evade from any position. That's to say, if someone grabs your arm in a punch (or anything else that's possible) and throws you off balance, tosses you to the side, in front of them, flips you or whatever.. you should be ready to bounce back, evade, back track a little and give yourself room, time and safety, or just outright counter and use it to your advantage -- from anywhere you land, in any position -- be ready to do something about it, especially if they are going to continue and follow up on the technique -- don't let them be able to! Moreover, that if they are doing any technique, not just throwing you or putting you in a lock, but if they counter and start a technique that they are going to kick, knee, elbow, strike you or whatever, don't let them be able to -- or at least don't let them be able to finish their combination of their technique or execute another following the previous one.

Get people to put you in holds and locks, etc. Find the best way to get out of them, cause them harm and add the scenario of other people also contributing to attacking you whilst this person has you in a hold or lock. Find out and discover new or familiar techniques to deal with these things. Keep this in mind too, in regards to my suggestions here, is to recognize when things are bad. What I mean is, there are certain things people can do that can and will lead you into their plan, lead you into their technique, etc.

Recognize and immediately get out of a potential situation that is just going to be bad. That's to say, know when to not do certain things and why, from these different variables that arise in a fight. Obviously, if some things happen, some locks, some types of seizing techniques, you are _not_ going to be able to get out of, prevent once it happens or get out of or counter them. Know when things get too close and can lead you into that situation and be ready to make sure that can't happen.

This is very important to get experience with. Recognize these things and take a hit if need be -- if you have the choice of something that is going to end your defense completely, or just maybe knock you off balance or whatever, which you should be prepared to deal with, you should do the latter. You should have defaults. You should be ready to deal with these things anyway -- for example, they are taking you in, they will lock and break something, but you are ready to counter it, because they only have so many options once they start to execute a certain technique. So, that can be to your advantage or give you some carnal insight. How many people do you assume would be ready to contend with someone with this type of experience and insight?

Also, don't always think about planning or aiming or whatever, to the head, knees or one part of the body, go for whatever is the most reasonable and harmful area and use the most effective, safest technique to do without getting into trouble or opening yourself up. It's like a boxer that keeps trying to hit his opponent on the head, when the body would be a better idea to concentrate on -- unless you have the ability to knock them out with a punch, which isn't likely for most people to be able to do (just an example). You _can_ keep a safe zone for yourself in almost any situation, even against multiple attackers. You simply need to find the reasons and principles behind them and get going on the action of studying them and getting experience with them. This will always be a benefit and advantage.


Also, as you said, dealing with weapon's is good too. This would really suck to have to deal with in a real situation, without any experience -- when you're only used to fists, feet, knees, elbows and heads to contend with. Definitely get used to dealing with bats, sticks, knives, guns, bottles and glass, and rocks... and any such thing that can be found on the ground or will be likely. Of course, some things function in the same manner and you can therefore be ready to deal with many different weapons, or have a good basis to anyway, by dealing with other's. I think you have the right idea.. I say go for it, anytime you have the chance.


Just remember though, try and not just get used to what they teach you in your school either, or any pre-planned, effective attacks. Most people will not know how to properly use a weapon, and that's not always to your advantage, since it's so wild, it's going to be difficult to get a grasp of what they'll possibly do next. This means that you will likely be unprepared for a real situation in a manner of speaking. Therefore, practice against skilled people, but make it a point to defend against wild, stupid attacks, as you would in real life against people that are going nuts with no skill.

Further, make sure that you do study the dynamics of it all, because, almost in opposition to my above statement, you can sort of prepare and learn, which is with any good martial arts technique, to understand that depending on the action, the motion,the angle, speed, and other such variables, you will know, even in their wild attack, that they are likely (or definitely) going to be going "that way" or doing "this" or "that" and how they will be limited to do other things.

It's like how Bruce Lee said once (and I am in no way "milking" the Bruce Lee legend here), that someone has a bat and thinks they have an advantage -- but you do... what are they going to do with a bat? They can swing, poke, jab, and that's about it. You, however, have your arms, legs, hands, feet, knees, elbows and a large variety of options -- whilst they are still limited to swinging, jabbing and the like -- not a very big advantage, is it?


Finally, try and make sure that you do this against people of different sizes (different strengths, weights and heights), as is the same good idea for any technique, dealing with any aspect of martial arts, because this too will help greatly and give you a better idea of dynamics, time and distance and what techniques work better than others, depending on those variables. Of course, this is all stuff to build off of, I'm just trying to open people up to other ideas, there's much more.

My intention in that regard, within the next few months or year, is to build up (and I know how this sounds and would seem ridiculous, overkill or flawed -- or like a movie we all know) and start a fight club in my local area -- figure, anyone willing within about 150 miles in any direction that wants to participate. Of course, this will be handled intelligently, not be a lot of people just looking for fights, but it will be real, people will get "broken", hurt, bloodied, knocked out, but not killed or anything. Basically, just mix it up, get an exact, realistic experience and knowledge and develop around it by incorporating various knowledge and ideas. Also, no required skills levels, although that will be encouraged, but any brawler that can be civil and sane that wants to mix it up. I can not wait!!

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Tim Greer -> admin@chatbase.com | Phone: 530-222-7244
I study any and every style and I'm always looking to spar!!
Also, if I'm not around for a while, I'm just away training.


This Message was edited by: Tim Greer on Aug 11, 2001 5:13am
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Tim Greer
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 25 Jun 2001
Posts: 173
Location: Northern California, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2001 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I just edited the above to fix all my stupid spelling mistakes, add things, and to elaborate or explain some of my suggestions, ideas and meanings a little more comprehensively. However, I had a good workout today and it's after 5 AM here again, and I need to get some rest. I also need to get going on my training, like I said in my other post, so I think this will probably be the last post I'll contribute to for a long while. I hope that some of these ideas, suggestions or whatever, will give people workable and valuable ideas to develop, use or work off of. Have fun everyone, it's been fun ranting like a mad man for the last month or so. Cheers!

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Regards,
Tim Greer -> admin@chatbase.com | Phone: 530-222-7244
I study any and every style and I'm always looking to spar!!
Also, if I'm not around for a while, I'm just away training. :-)
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taezee
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 12 Jul 2001
Posts: 701
Location: Bayshore New York

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2001 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whew..i thought you were going to start writing chapters...by the way brad pitt called he wants his movie plot back.....and as far as multiple attackers training goes practice running really fast becuase in real life multiple attackers do not wait thier turn to attack you like in the movies...some of you may say well thats chicken...why should i run,,im a big bad martial arts dude bring it on..nothing can kill a man faster in this life than his pride.
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Angus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2001
Posts: 1064
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2001 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's absolutely right, that's why u train to have them come in at u from all angles at the same times or close to it. There's no set time, they can all just jump in whenever they want.

Angus

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Tim Greer
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 25 Jun 2001
Posts: 173
Location: Northern California, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2001 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2001-08-11 08:28, taezee wrote:
whew..i thought you were going to start writing chapters...by the way brad pitt called he wants his movie plot back.....and as far as multiple attackers training goes practice running really fast becuase in real life multiple attackers do not wait thier turn to attack you like in the movies...some of you may say well thats chicken...why should i run,,im a big bad martial arts dude bring it on..nothing can kill a man faster in this life than his pride.


I believe in that movie, they jut fought, taking turns... I don't recall anything I said being reminisent of the movie plot -- good movie though. Anyway, I'm not sure if you got the indication from my post (I couldn't tell by your response) that I was at all trying to say anything like people take turns, etc. Of course, in movies, they all stand there, waiting to have the hero hit them, one by one. Obviously avoiding or otherwise fleeing the situation, is preferable. However, the point to martial arts and fighting even one person, is only meant to be if you can't get out of it -- be it one person or many people. The more you train to deal with the worst situations, the better off you are -- in case you can't run. This same theory holds true of one person. You say you'd be out of there if it was multiple people, which is good, but no mention of any fight? Wouldn't you then run from any fight? Any fight that can be avoided (and most can), is only going to be fought for few reasons.

Ego is often true of a reason, but mostly it's out of anger. There's a big difference, even if both reasons are stupid. I just was a little confused that you seemed to say that people should run from a fight with a few or more people or say it's out of pride? But you must realize there are other reasons too of why someone would fight. Finally, of why you didn't mention this in singular terms, since the same holds true of any fight, even against one person. I just thought you might want to elaborate or clear that up, so no one misunderstood what you meant. Cheers.

_________________
Regards,
Tim Greer -> admin@chatbase.com | Phone: 530-222-7244
I study any and every style and I'm always looking to spar!!
Also, if I'm not around for a while, I'm just away training. :-)
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