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Icetuete
Black Belt
Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 1025
Location: Germany
Styles: ITF Taekwondo
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 Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| All sports bro, lack weapons training and don't account for changes in environment. |
yes, but i think they all make well fighters none the less. except maybe command sambo because i dont know anything about it.
and to the environment thing... that would be the old "ring vs street" discussion and to what extend they are the same/different, which was not the purpose of this threat. i guess Kyokushin and Muay Thai are very suitable fighting arts, but lack grappling which i think u have to either cross train or go attend one of the above (Krav, San soo...) in first place.
just my opinion though. |
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2279
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Boxing,Lars Wallin BJJ, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:50 am Post subject: |
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So don't you think MA's that were actually used in Combat are better suited for Combat than a MA that is designed for the ring? Let's not get into the training methods and how superior sport arts are, I already know this. Just think of yourself charging the enemy with your clan, is everyone going to pair up and have individual matches to see who wins. Your going to get in fast take him down and finish him fast, then move on. Big difference. 
_________________
"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Lock em out or Knock em out" |
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Icetuete
Black Belt
Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 1025
Location: Germany
Styles: ITF Taekwondo
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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thats correct to a certain extend (although me and my "clan" dont start gang wars ) and that is the reason why i favor Kung Fu San Soo.
but i think i Muay Thai practicioner would have good chances in such a pair up.
| Quote: |
| So don't you think MA's that were actually used in Combat are better suited for Combat than a MA that is designed for the ring? |
btw, yes i do think so |
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2279
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Boxing,Lars Wallin BJJ, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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I can't disagree with you there. Cheers.
_________________
"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Lock em out or Knock em out" |
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SevenStar
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 2631
Location: TN
Styles: bjj, judo, shuai chiao, muay thai
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Treebranch wrote: |
| So don't you think MA's that were actually used in Combat are better suited for Combat than a MA that is designed for the ring? |
No, I don't think so, unless we're talking weapon styles. I'd rather charge into battle with some iado knowledge as opposed to just muay thai, for example, but in reference to empty hand combat, I have plenty of faith in my MT, judo and bjj.
I omitted the part of your quote concerning conditioning, but you realistically can't do that. If you are in empty hand combat with multiple opponents involved, you had better have top notch conditioning. |
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SevenStar
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 2631
Location: TN
Styles: bjj, judo, shuai chiao, muay thai
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Icetuete wrote: |
| Quote: |
| All sports bro, lack weapons training and don't account for changes in environment. |
yes, but i think they all make well fighters none the less. except maybe command sambo because i dont know anything about it.
and to the environment thing... that would be the old "ring vs street" discussion and to what extend they are the same/different, which was not the purpose of this threat. i guess Kyokushin and Muay Thai are very suitable fighting arts, but lack grappling which i think u have to either cross train or go attend one of the above (Krav, San soo...) in first place.
just my opinion though. |
muay thai doesn't lack grappling per se. you just don't really see it, other than the plumb technique.
karate has throws, but I know very few karate people who throw while sparring. Muay thai has takedowns. since they aren't really used in competition, they aren't trained alot, so many people who don't train muay thai never see them. Just as with anything else, when you don't practice them regularly, you won't use them. |
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2279
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Boxing,Lars Wallin BJJ, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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SevenStar if Combat MA's aren't better suited for Combat than Sport Arts why did they use them in past battles. For example, Fuedal Japan. If they weren't any good than why are they even around still being taught and why were they past down generation after generation.? It's not like these people compete and make money promoting competitions and fighting tournament where gambling takes place. These worked and still work. Yes weapons are a big part of it, so what.
One on one fight with no weapons, sure what you are learning is fine. I'd rather be safe than sorry and know exactly how to use a weapon than not. Iiado is great but it is one piece of the many parts of Jujutsu, Real Jujutsu.
Concerning conditioning and training, are saying someone can't run everyday, eat right, spar, do bag work, and constantly do drills to make them better? What difference does it make what MA it is if the person is highly conditioned? There are more than one way to fight my friend. You are buying in to the whole NHB fights as if they are the holy grail of Martial Arts. Guess what, it is not. They are things you simply don't know.
There's a lot of cockiness in those arts, that kind of attitude will only bring you trouble. You and your heros aren't invincible. You should realize that.
_________________
"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Lock em out or Knock em out" |
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2279
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Boxing,Lars Wallin BJJ, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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So by your logic, if you practice it you will use it. So if you don't, you won't. I totally agree.
_________________
"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Lock em out or Knock em out" |
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SevenStar
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 2631
Location: TN
Styles: bjj, judo, shuai chiao, muay thai
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Treebranch wrote: |
| Yeah, if your endurance and evasion skills are good. But that can go for any Martial Artist that trains hard and is in good physical condition. Still weapons training is a crucial part of MA training. Dodging or blocking kicks is much different than evading a knife attack. So it really depends on the training methods. If you are training for the ring you will probably destroy most people hand to hand, but if a weapon (not a gun of course) is around it's all up in the air. Prize fighters are usually not concerned with weapons techniques, they are train to win fights. Don't get me wrong I really respect what these guys can do, but you can usually tell who these guys are. If you see these guys on the street you can usually spot them pretty easily, don't mess with them. Now the real dangerous guys are the ones that look like they can't do much, but can. |
Don't fool yourself on that one. When a weapon is involved, the outcome is up in the air no matter what you train in, unless you're doing weapons defenses constantly, every day, like an escrimador or kalista. just because you learn some knefe defenses and a staff form doesn't mean you can hold your own against a weapon on the street. |
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2279
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Boxing,Lars Wallin BJJ, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Oh so I shouldn't bother studying weapons? What are you saying? If you train to have a bad * attitude you will eventually meet up with someone that is going to kill you. I train in an MA that teach weapons and how to counter them, it doesn't mean that I won't get killed or hurt. It just means that I will be more cautious and have the knowledge that if someone is attacking me he's probably concealing a weapon. The thing is that guys like you who study for NHB think nothing else is effective. You keep believing that, it's better for people like me that you believe that.
By the way we do weapon defenses constantly, it's one in the same with unarmed techniques. That's how it works.
_________________
"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Lock em out or Knock em out" |
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on the post.
