UFC 104; Judges Smudges!

sensei8 · KF Sensei

Shogun WON that match, and it's as plain as the nose on my face!

Bad judging was in Machida's corner and I'm a fan of Machida. Shogun WON 3 out of 5 rounds as far as I could see and as far as I'm concerned.

Shogun was by far the major aggressor, he defended better, and he did far more damage. Shogun's corner didn't lose him this fight; that is just a ridiculous arguement to make, imho. Yes, Shoguns corner could've pushed him some way and/or some how so that he'd fight as though his life depended on it, but, they didn't push him. Still, imho, Shogun was robbed plain and simple, and the judges involved need to be fired.

No, imho, what this is about is money and hype, the UFC wants more of both, therefore, money and hype...they both feed off of each other. White's already promised a rematch just as soon as he can arrange it....MONEY/HYPE, these are what fuels the engine of the UFC, which, is fastly becoming the sister of the WWE with all of its taunting, poor sportsmanship, heels/babyfaces, and pre-determined winners.

Right now I'm not sure who's at blame mostly, if blame is a proper word. The judges for not being able to see the obvious from ringside, OR, White for setting this up to play out as it did for a even bigger PPV rating.

Am I alone in my feelings? I don't think that I am. I personally can't wait until the UFC or some other MMA organization goes back to the early days of MMA/UFC. No weight divisions, step-ladder format, and very few rules!

Speaking of the WWE, "To be the man, you have to beat the man!" Shogun didn't beat Machida. Bottom line. Fat lady's singing. Elvis has left the building. Thank you and good night all.

I love a GREAT fight; in that, I don't care who wins just as long as it's one against one. But, it's not one against one any longer because there's the two fighters, the judges, and the promoter(s); how fair does any MMA fighter really have?

MMA fighters need each other! MMA fighters need the judges! MMA fighters need the promoter(s)! But at what cost? At who's cost? At any cost?

Will I watch UFC 105, 106...so on and so on? Yeah, but my patience is getting thin!

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**Proof is on the floor!!!

Kuma · Black Belt

I saw the same fight, and honestly throughout most of the fight there was no real clear winner in any round. At most it would have been 3-2 Shogun, but instead they voted 3-2 Machida.

There was no real beatdown, there was no one fighter taking more control of the fight than the other in much of it. Neither was dropped, neither was more aggressive.

Guess we'll just have to wait for the rematch.

ShoriKid · Pre-Black Belt

Read reports of the fight, looked at the compubox type stats for the fighters etc. Outside of leg kicks, Rua held no real advantage in striking over Machida. If the leg kicks weren't buckling his legs and stealing his mobility, they aren't doing much. Machida did land more knees/kicks to the body and defended the take down attempts. Most of the commentary I've seen gave rounds 4 & 5 to Rua, with 1 & 2 going to Machida, 3 being very close or even split.

If your upset with the judging, blame the California State Athletic Commision. The UFC doesn't get to pick the judges, the CSAC does. Dana doesn't get a say in who judges, or how they score. As a promoter, who's job it is to hype up fights, I don't see a thing wrong with him coming out and saying they will rematch. It's what fight fans want and are willing to pay for.

As to rules reverting back to the early days, yes, you are pretty close to alone. Doing that would lose the sports commision sanctioning in almost every state/country it's in right now. It goes off the air, promotions collapse and fighters don't get paid. Fighters don't get paid, they get other jobs and the talent you see on DVDs and the internet drops drastically. Fight gyms that are high caliber go under from lack of money without the students/fighters there to support them.

Other than that, slightly hyped

, prediction, with the skill level and athletic ability of the people fighting now, open weights would lead to what was happening in earlier UFCs. Bigger fighters winning most all the time. For a while, about 200lbs + became the norm. With the skill gap gone, size matters a lot. See BJ Penn vs. GSP for a very good example. Tournament format on the same night wouldn't work either. Most fighters, again do to higher skill level, couldn't get through more than one, perhaps two fights with few enough injuries to continue.

In the end though, what we'll get is a rematch from two very good fighters who will come out trying even harder to win than before. I can't say that disappoints me at all.
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Kisshu fushin, Oni te hotoke kokoro. A demon's hand, a saint's heart. -- Osensei Shoshin Nagamine

tallgeese · Black Belt

Just got the video, I'll get back with my thoughts.

tallgeese · Black Belt

Ok, got the chance to check it out.

I'm gonna say that the decision wasn't out of line in my opinion. It really could have gone either way. Not to mention, to dethrone a sitting champ, you really should have to decisively beat him.

At the end of the day, any time it goes to the judges it's out of the fighters hands. In this case, I don't think they were wrong, but I wouldn't be throwing a fit if it had gone the other way either.

All in all, it's probably the tightest technical battle at that level we've seen in a while. Kudos to both guys and I'm looking forward to the rematch.

I have to go with Shorikid on his assessment of getting back to the roots of mma. It is a bad idea. Look at the talent level you have now and the well roundedness of the fighters. It's leaps ahead of what you saw before. Largely due to the unification of rules and sanctioning that allows for more money to be made under a legitimate, professional sport. Take that away and you'll see drastically different products.

Anyone remember the reign of Tank Abbot? I think we've all become accustomed to a higher grade of competitor. The sports current format has given that to us.

Weight classes, rules that make sense, cross training to fulfill potential rather than a "this art vs. that art" all make for a more watchable venue and better fighters.

I don't think we'll see a legitimate move backwards, nor do I think we should.

pittbullJudoka · Black Belt

First off when you don't finish your opponent and let the judges decide anything can happen. I've not seen the fight but from evrything I read on it Machida landed more power shots. When you are the challenger to a title your job is to knockout, submit, or decisively beat the champion.
If you think this fight was a fix look deep into the early days of mma. Most of the early tournament style UFC brackets were rigged so Royce would face certain fighters also some fighter were even diallowed for fear they would handely beat Royce. Just some food for thought.

seersin · Green Belt

I watched it live, have read the comp-u box numbers, and read cecil's blog about why he gave it 3 rounds to 2 for Machida.
I personally would say there is no clear cut winner. Other than Shogun's
leg kicks he really didn't do a whole lot. Now his strike count from comp-u box is higher, but most of those strikes were leg kicks. A majority of Machida's power shots were to the head and body, so he got the nod from2/3 judges for the first 3 rounds.
I believe that since Shogun was much more effective, in rounds 4 and 5, that's what most people remember. They forget that the first 3 rounds were pretty close.
Now there is no written rule that says close/even rounds always go to the champ, the fact of the matter is they always do. Whether that's right or wrong is debatable.
I would have personally called it a draw, and set up a re-match as soon as possible.
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