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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:15 am    Post subject: Was boxing conflicting or complementary to your Karate? Reply with quote

I was surprised to find the orthodox boxing stance much more comfortable/natural than any Karate equivalent. A lot of cordination from my Karate training is still present as a beginner in boxing, but the bodymechanics is of course completely different.

Did you find crosstraining boxing ultimately complimentary or conflicting to your Karate? Did you mix in Karate footwork into your sparring with any success?
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Wado Heretic
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Joined: 23 May 2014
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Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Largely complementary; in that it allowed me to explore a lot of aspects of fighting you only find in combat sports, but not necessarily in self-defence. Started me down the road to exploring various ways to generate power, and the differences in punching techniques, and the end goals.

In boxing sparring; no, I tried to avoid using any karate based foot-work. When it is hands only; and your concerns are not necessarily kicking or shooting, being too squared up, or having your stance low, does not make one necessarily slower, however, it does make you less agile in the ways you need to be in boxing. Plus; I was there to learn to box, so I tried to discipline myself to stick to what was taught. With that said, I probably let some of my competitive kumite habits slip in when sparring, but never consciously.

It helped me be competitive in kick-boxing, and in kick-boxing I had to make more use of my karate foot-work. So, they can complement each other under the right circumstances.

Depends ultimately on the end goal; if one's goal is to compete, then boxing is a must. It is a weapon in most competitors tool box as kick-boxers or free-fighters. From a self-defence end goal; it helps to have some awareness of boxing, but if only to avoid being ignorant of a weapon you could in theory encounter. In the same sense it is advisable to have some grasp of wrestling because in theory you could encounter it.

The lateral movement of Karate stance work can be useful against an in-fighter, and can help set up for counter-punching. However, a relative beginner, versus a seasoned boxer is probably not going to be able to make this count in a boxing situation. The North-South movement, can surprise, but if you do not follow up with a good combination it is wasted energy; so you need to practice swiftly moving from that extended lunging stance into a proper boxing stance to unload from.

So there are ways to use karate foot-work in boxing; but boxers move the way they do for very good reason. It's worked for the last century quite well in the boxing ring.
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Prototype
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wado Heretic wrote:
Largely complementary; in that it allowed me to explore a lot of aspects of fighting you only find in combat sports, but not necessarily in self-defence. Started me down the road to exploring various ways to generate power, and the differences in punching techniques, and the end goals.

In boxing sparring; no, I tried to avoid using any karate based foot-work. When it is hands only; and your concerns are not necessarily kicking or shooting, being too squared up, or having your stance low, does not make one necessarily slower, however, it does make you less agile in the ways you need to be in boxing. Plus; I was there to learn to box, so I tried to discipline myself to stick to what was taught. With that said, I probably let some of my competitive kumite habits slip in when sparring, but never consciously.

It helped me be competitive in kick-boxing, and in kick-boxing I had to make more use of my karate foot-work. So, they can complement each other under the right circumstances.

Depends ultimately on the end goal; if one's goal is to compete, then boxing is a must. It is a weapon in most competitors tool box as kick-boxers or free-fighters. From a self-defence end goal; it helps to have some awareness of boxing, but if only to avoid being ignorant of a weapon you could in theory encounter. In the same sense it is advisable to have some grasp of wrestling because in theory you could encounter it.

The lateral movement of Karate stance work can be useful against an in-fighter, and can help set up for counter-punching. However, a relative beginner, versus a seasoned boxer is probably not going to be able to make this count in a boxing situation. The North-South movement, can surprise, but if you do not follow up with a good combination it is wasted energy; so you need to practice swiftly moving from that extended lunging stance into a proper boxing stance to unload from.

So there are ways to use karate foot-work in boxing; but boxers move the way they do for very good reason. It's worked for the last century quite well in the boxing ring.


Hmmm.. But Kickboxers don't use boxing stances to throw punches (hard to mix in kicks when you load up on punches and bend your knees so much), so did you ultimately drop the orthodox boxing stance in the Kickboxing ring and applied kickboxing-boxing?
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Wado Heretic
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Joined: 23 May 2014
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Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Came down to the range; I am a switch-hitter, so I often swap between orthodox and south paw to fight. Sometimes I would stand up a bit more, as in a boxing stance, if the range made it make more sense. Depended on the rhythm my opponent tried to set; I would just employ the foot work that seemed most problematic for them.

Though, largely, yes, had to use a kick-boxing stance/stances.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wado Heretic wrote:
Came down to the range; I am a switch-hitter, so I often swap between orthodox and south paw to fight. Sometimes I would stand up a bit more, as in a boxing stance, if the range made it make more sense. Depended on the rhythm my opponent tried to set; I would just employ the foot work that seemed most problematic for them.

Though, largely, yes, had to use a kick-boxing stance/stances.


Yeah I was curious why you didn't train in a Kickboxing gym instead, since those are the rule-sets you were going to fight in? Are the boxing instructors in Kickboxing too poor?
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tallgeese
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found it totally useful. I got the chance to train with a great boxer while at college after about 3-4 years of training kempo. This exposure let me add more fluid footwork to my repertoire. It also let me focus on my hands specifically and how to apply them under fight conditions. The live nature of mitt work and sparring also directly applied to fight application.

I think that it's time well spent for any practitioner of the fighting arts.
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Prototype
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was surprised that I came to love the conditioning aspect of boxing. I thought beforehand that it would bore me out and that I wouldn't be commited, but I love the training culture.

So that and the lack of bunkai, kata, and a single focus on one aspect really swayed me.

I train both at the moment, but if I had to drop one of them, it would be my traditional martial art.
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Wado Heretic
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Joined: 23 May 2014
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Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No kick-boxing gym in the area, so I was rather stuck for choice. This was about eight-ten years ago, and my town did not get a dedicated martial arts facility until just over four years ago. There was a Kick-boxing club, but not a gym, so I preferred the boxing gym for the access to equipment, and the flexibility to train at my own pace.

I was also pretty confident in my kicking, and kick defence, acumen from my point-fighting and knock-down experience. So the other reason I focused on my boxing is because of my lack of fighting experience in gloves.

I would always say follow your passion. I enjoyed boxing, and still incorporate a lot of what I learnt into how I train, and what I teach. However, it was never my passion; it was a means to an end in my desired martial arts career. Did not pay off; I hit a wall I could not get past due to my health, but I would do it again.
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Prototype
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will never compete, just want to learn it as a martial art and be so fit that I could hypotethically go a match.

The lifestyle of a boxer intrigues me, even though it's mostly upperbody glory.
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
I will never compete, just want to learn it as a martial art and be so fit that I could hypotethically go a match.

The lifestyle of a boxer intrigues me, even though it's mostly upperbody glory.
Never say never, just never know what is waiting for you down the road.

I believe the more combat knowledge and experience the better; this includes boxing.
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