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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2377
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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 Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Personally you would join as a white belt, as IMHO (and mean no disrespect) would be considered rude to ask to be permitted to wear whatever rank you wanted because of your prior training.
We have many students come through who have had previous training, but will have recommenced at white belt and when eligible to grade they will get graded to where their skill level is at. Like what JR said, you could train on your own for x number of years, but you may quite easily be very rusty on the technical side of things.
But that also depended on whether they have trained in our style of karatedo or not. If they didn't then they can't progress to say black belt. |
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Lupin1
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1637
Location: Naples, FL
Styles: Isshinryu
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| I'd also like to add that I enjoy visiting new schools to see how different places do things. Despite being a black belt at my school, when I visit a new school I wear a white belt and I go in with an open mind knowing that they will do things differently and that I am a complete beginner in their way of doing things. It's not insulting or degrading for someone with experience to wear a white belt. It just means you're new to that school and are learning their way of doing things. |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:25 am Post subject: |
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If CIs gives a student a Black belt on the first day of class due to the merits of what their dad taught, then that student could do the rounds in other schools and associations and end up technically with 10 Black belts in 10 different styles; just is not going to happen but if it does, then call the "Guinness Book of Records" and become a record holder.
Having a 100 fights with 100 Black belts and winning all the fights doesn't make a White belt a Black belt.
Ohhh the in justice of it all.
Give yourself a time frame of about 4 years and get your Black belt the usual way, as in; when in Rome do as the Romans do. |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| aazaaazaaazaaaza wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
i agree with what Lupin is saying. To add...
What's your point in joining a dojo? Is it for rank, or is it to train? Or is it to learn and improve. If it's anything other than rank, then the belt color you start with and subsequent belts you attain aren't any more important than you and the instructors knowing approximately where in the syllabus you are. |
Honesty, I just want to train with other people. I'm no master in karate, but I'm competent and was trained by a well-regarded man in my area. My fear is that I'll be treated as some white belt noob and thrown in with kid classes or something. I certainly don't want to waste $$$ and time learning things I already know. I also don't want to seem like I'm showing anybody up by wearing a white belt and displaying my knowledge of all the kata and all that.
I guess my desire is to be able to walk into a dojo and improve my skills. (My stepfather is too old and crippled to continue training with me, and I'm 27. I need guys closer to my age to train with.) The kickboxing guys I spar with had no problem acknowledging my previous training, but I get the feeling that practitioners of a rank-focused martial art like karate would make me jump through useless hoops.
So that's my goal: to improve upon the karate I already have and to become the best I can be. |
If you came to train with me you would start out as a white belt irregardless of your skills. I started a new art and was a Sandan in my main art and started as a white belt.
You will not be put into a children's class and you do not have to worry about showing anyone up. If the instructor is worth his salt he will evaluate you. If he knows your at the level of Sankyu he will have you spar with them and not with new white belts.
Wearing a white belt is not a bad thing. I may be wrong or off base but it seems that you are apposed to wearing or being labelled as a white belt.
It matters not what your current rank or skill level is as you are new to that art/school.
If I started a new art today I would expect to be started as a white belt. Your step father should have taught you about the beginners mind. It really doesn't matter how advanced you are, you always return to the basics. My Shinshii was a Hachidan and 84 yrs old when he retired and still had the Yudansha classes practice their basics as well as he did.
The belt does not make you who you are. It is just a beginning.
In no way should you start teaching or award yourself a grade that you have not earned. This is both dishonest and disgraceful.
It doesn't matter how good you think you are or what grade you think you are, if you really want to know join a Dojo and ask to be tested. You'll get an honest answer and be placed where you need to be. Or better yet you'll be given the chance to earn your ranks.
It may not be were you thought you would be placed but at least it will be honest. Rank can not be taken or given, it is earned. |
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xwingday
White Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2016
Posts: 2
Styles: Taekwondo, Kenpo
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:03 am Post subject: |
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That's not the same, but close to the questions I had to ask when I decided to change arts. I earned a 1st DAN in TKD but after that where I studied there wasn't much continuing education for black belts. (And I tend to believe you should never stop learning in some form or other) I checked into schools for TKD as well as other arts, and in all cases I started at white. (Which is okay with me, I am their to learn and improve.) In some cases the instructors offered me the chance to take the colored rank tests more quickly, or in the case of TKD places to evaluate me against their own ranking standards and start me based on where along their rank requirements I was.
If you find a good place to train your time and money will not be wasted. Training with a new instructor can bring new perspectives to things and you might find something new.
Hope you didn't mind a new voice chiming in. |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| xwingday wrote: |
If you find a good place to train your time and money will not be wasted. Training with a new instructor can bring new perspectives to things and you might find something new.
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Very well stated. Couldn't agree more. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16499
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Of all of the belts found in any MA, the White Belt is far above the most valued and important belt of them all. Why? Without first being a White Belt, one can't earn any other rank.
Imho!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
Of all of the belts found in any MA, the White Belt is far above the most valued and important belt of them all. Why? Without first being a White Belt, one can't earn any other rank.
Imho!!
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Permission to use this quote, Sensei8? I love this quote as it hits right to the point. We all started as beginners.
Today's fast food mentality is so eager to get the next grade that they sometimes fail to appreciate what was taught in the grade they are in.
I have a friend that is almost 20 years younger than me that will be testing for his Rokudan. He is in a different art but was a former student of mine and still trains with me on occasion. He asked me if this makes me uncomfortable that we will be the same grade and wonders why it doesn't bother me that I am not farther up the belt food chain so to speak.
Maybe it's the way I think but I feel I am exactly where I am supposed to be in my life and in my grade. I have been offered Nanadan three times in the last 7 years and can't imagine why I would accept it as I am not in my own mind ready for it. Personally I can die a Rokudan and be happy as a clown with what I have accomplished. For that matter they could bust me down to Hachikyu and it wouldn't make me loose an ounce of sleep.
The belt does not define us. This is what I think students miss today. I would rather move to Shechikyu as the best Hachikyu with nothing left to learn and nothing left to perfect than to be given the rank before I am truly ready. If the foundation is strong the Shodan will be strong. If it is weak the Shodan means little as it is weak as well.
The better the white belt is the better the black belt will be. |
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2377
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
Of all of the belts found in any MA, the White Belt is far above the most valued and important belt of them all. Why? Without first being a White Belt, one can't earn any other rank.
Imho!!
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Solid post Sensei8!
For me students who cannot put a white belt on irregardless of when they were one, then have lost the ability to realize that there is always something to learn.
Alone in 2016, I put a white belt on multiple times not only by trying other martial arts or styles but also by putting one on in my own dojo. Multiple times to remind me to be humble and give myself a reality check other times was because in my eyes i didn't deserve to wear any other rank than a White Belt for a time.
For me that is the real test for anyone wanting to be a Black Belt. |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:57 am Post subject: |
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If I truly believe in no way as way, then what holds more knowledge; that which is contained in a belt colour or that which is not?
I don't disrespect or respect belt rankings as both perspectives would become equally types of cages.
I do however accept that many martial artists like and need belt rankings for better or for worse, similar to those that wear a religious symbol on their person as a type of garment as a part of their faith.
Uniforms and coloured belts and ribbons have proven to be effective methods of gaining respect from others in many professions but it has, like everything else had it's negative sides for disrespecting authoritys; that ironically in the martial art world, creates another MA style!
As there are many types of authorities of martial arts that are called styles, websites such as here on KarateForum.Com is more interested in building bridges between people than building high walls; very commendable... |
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on the post.
