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Killer Miller
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 29 Nov 2002
Posts: 732
Location: California
Styles: JKA Shotokan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I actually do mean that... When all muscles relax/contract properly, in unison, in the proper timing, the outside movements come together naturally with little explanation. This is accomplished through proper breathing and "breathing timing." And no, I do not necessarily mean to always Kiai either. But then again, what is Kiai? Rapid exhalation of air from the lower diagphram, and then quickly stopping the exhalation - thus the Kiai sound... Rapid or slow breathing provides the same body actions except a faster or slower action.

Better get back to work... Talk to ya later for now.

- Killer Miller -

jeffrogers wrote:
I see what you mean KM. I know the importance of breathing. Maybe I am misinterpreting the message in your post. But seems like your stating that with the breathing that the techniques will naturally fall into place. No I don't think you mean that.
...snip...

Now is the breathings your talking about in the form of the KIA say on the end of a punch?
-Jeff

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monkeygirl
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Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 3677
Location: Oregon
Styles: Tae Kwon Do

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karateka wrote:
The way I teach beginners has to do with age, for me. Sometimes, small children have to be taught the "outward techniques" as you call them (great name by the way, really)The same can go with older adults. If the person is not ready to really learn the inner workings of the movements, I feel they may learn that later. If they are ready at that stage, i teach them what i know. However, I am still learning a great deal, so its hard for me to teach like my Instructors. lol


I agree with you. I have a hard time believing that proper breathing will make your muscles automatically do the right thing...but then again I've never tried it. Since I already know what I'm doing, I'm kind of spoiled.
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jeffrogers
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 322
Location: Camp LaGuardia, Uijongbu, South Korea
Styles: BJJ, Hakutsuru (White Crane Karate), Shaolin Kenpo

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree on that that breathing is importatn but it doesn't automatically lock you into doing moves correct. That has to be ingrained with repetion. If that "Theory" was correct you would say way more skilled people then you actually do in the martial arts community. Or any sport indevour. Physical condtioning, breathing techniaques, dedication of mind and body, and actually reps and learning is what makes a good martial artist as far as technical aspects. correct breathing is only part of it. You got to train the muscles for muscle memory.

So no offense but from my experience with teaching and watching other instructers teach and very highly skilled instructoers in other arts as well. I am very skeptical about your theory.

-Jeff
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aefibird
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4416
Location: UK
Styles: Past and present: 2 styles of Karate, TKD, Aikido, Wing Chun, some Tai Chi

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great article, there's a lot in there to think about.
On the point about 'learning to tie a belt', my dojo had this kid (aged about 10 or 11) come & join us a few months ago. When we get new starters either myself or my sensei will go into the changing rooms with them when they first arrive to make sure they can put their gi on & tie their belt (this isn't just for the kids, we occasionally get adults who can't fasten their gi at first too!!). This new girl had had a few lessons at another dojo before, so I didn't show her how to tie her belt, I just asked her if she knew how to. She gave me a look that could have killed and said "of course I can, I'm not thick". So, I left her to it and went into the dojo, telling the kid to come in when she'd got ready. 5 minutes comes and goes and there's still no sign of the girl. I go back to the changing rooms to find her still trying to put the belt on. She saw me and grinned very sheepishly...
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aes
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 24 Sep 2002
Posts: 374
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Styles: Okinawan Shorin-ryu Karate

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, thank you for this article. I never really thought of it this way but it is a great little collection of issues surrounding the "white belt" stage.

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jeffrogers
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 322
Location: Camp LaGuardia, Uijongbu, South Korea
Styles: BJJ, Hakutsuru (White Crane Karate), Shaolin Kenpo

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShootI remember when I taught along side my instructor at his MA School. kiddn't didn't know how to tie the belt neither the adults. Some got it right some didn't. After awhile I stopped carring.

-Jefff
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monkeygirl
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Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 3677
Location: Oregon
Styles: Tae Kwon Do

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always taught beginners how to tie their belts right away, because some that trained before tied them a different way that our school didn't like. Still, people had a hard time figuring it out. When it got to where the whole class was messing it up, I would reserve a time in the beginning of class where I lead them in belt tying.
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Drunken Monkey
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 3559
Location: bar italia
Styles: white chocolate profiteroles and natas....

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think that when you first teach someone you have to be absolutely pedantic about even the most mundane things.

for a start you can see how dedicated they really are about this thing you are about to impart.

if they don't even take the time to learn the little things like how to tie a belt, or count to ten in another language, or how to stand, what does that say about the amount of effort they will put in to the more serious things?

that is why we insist that everyone goes through at least two weeks of doing nothing but punching before we begin to teach the first of the basics.
to make things a little worse, we have them do their punching exercises in the corner while the rest of us get on with our own work.

how they do during this is often a good indication of how hard they will work later.

we always tell people to do the drills at home, go through the forms and punching drills.
that's all we can do; ask them to do something.
if they don't they will ultimately be the ones wasting their time.

you can't not care about it.
after all, we don't want them to leave us after a few years and not be able to do the basics things.

you can't say that it's not important.
you have to give 100% about everything to get 100% back from them.
at least that's what i hope.
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jeffrogers
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 322
Location: Camp LaGuardia, Uijongbu, South Korea
Styles: BJJ, Hakutsuru (White Crane Karate), Shaolin Kenpo

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good points.
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wado_lee
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Posts: 182
Location: england
Styles: wado ryu & jujitsu

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i feel martial arts in general is as much a battle against westerners way of thinking as technical ability get your mind right and the rest will follow no respect in the dojo means your minds not right i may be wrong but showing respect never hurt anyone
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