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JusticeZero
Black Belt
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: AK
Styles: Capoeira Angola
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 Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| I'd imagine that if the gun is drawn and they are close enough for you to do any technique, then you're already screwed unless you can talk them out of it. They'll be able to pull the trigger much faster than you'll ever be able to defend against it. |
It's actually rather the opposite. Guns are RANGED WEAPONS. Imagine that you are going to shoot someone with a bow and arrow. If you're standing close enough that you have to adjust how you nock and draw the bow because your target is in the way, you're doing it wrong.
The brain is not a fast instrument. It's been said that there is a lag of about a third of a second between the eyes and everything else. Further, tests have indicated that at relatively close ranges of (as I recall) seven meters or closer, you would have to be a fool to bring a gun to a knife fight.
Guns only threaten space in very specific ways, unlike for instance a knife which can threaten all sorts of space near the hand.
If you have the unenviable need to chose a weapon to defend against, and you will be at close enough range to use unarmed techniques, a gun is one of your best choices.
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| JusticeZero wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
| I'd imagine that if the gun is drawn and they are close enough for you to do any technique, then you're already screwed unless you can talk them out of it. They'll be able to pull the trigger much faster than you'll ever be able to defend against it. |
It's actually rather the opposite. Guns are RANGED WEAPONS. Imagine that you are going to shoot someone with a bow and arrow. If you're standing close enough that you have to adjust how you nock and draw the bow because your target is in the way, you're doing it wrong.
The brain is not a fast instrument. It's been said that there is a lag of about a third of a second between the eyes and everything else. Further, tests have indicated that at relatively close ranges of (as I recall) seven meters or closer, you would have to be a fool to bring a gun to a knife fight.
Guns only threaten space in very specific ways, unlike for instance a knife which can threaten all sorts of space near the hand.
If you have the unenviable need to chose a weapon to defend against, and you will be at close enough range to use unarmed techniques, a gun is one of your best choices. |
Well my point was, how are the gun defence techniques working? Not criticising darksoul, but a lot of the stuff you see is where the defender elaborately takes the gun from the attacker e.g. http://youtu.be/mwFfk7igYC0
If they are that close that you can do that and the gun is already drawn and aimed at you, the risk of getting shot is too high for me. Even if it takes time for them to react to your movement, pulling the trigger is much quicker than you moving and executing the technique, nevermind execute it smoothly. If it doesn't go so well and you end up wrestling for control you still run the risk of getting shot. If it was me, I'd just hand over the cash.
If they are far away and in a position to fire, you're in not in a position to take the gun off of them. Since you have to close the gap to do anything, they could shoot you first still.
I don't know for certain, but I thought the distance of 7 metres was when the gun wasn't already drawn? Them having to take the gun out and aim will be in your favour and that'll obviously be a different story.
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darksoul
Purple Belt
Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Posts: 548
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Styles: Shaolin Kempo
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
Well my point was, how are the gun defence techniques working? Not criticising darksoul, but a lot of the stuff you see is where the defender elaborately takes the gun from the attacker e.g. http://youtu.be/mwFfk7igYC0
If they are that close that you can do that and the gun is already drawn and aimed at you, the risk of getting shot is too high for me. Even if it takes time for them to react to your movement, pulling the trigger is much quicker than you moving and executing the technique, nevermind execute it smoothly. If it doesn't go so well and you end up wrestling for control you still run the risk of getting shot. If it was me, I'd just hand over the cash.
If they are far away and in a position to fire, you're in not in a position to take the gun off of them. Since you have to close the gap to do anything, they could shoot you first still.
I don't know for certain, but I thought the distance of 7 metres was when the gun wasn't already drawn? Them having to take the gun out and aim will be in your favour and that'll obviously be a different story. |
I understand what you're saying, but our defense techniques are if someone is pointing the gun directly at your chest or head, and as JusticeZero mentioned, the brain has its "lag."
My most comfortable defense literally takes less than a second to execute.
From the gun pointed at your chest, you perform a #9 or #10 block (9 being the left hand will come down on the inside of the elbow while the right hand comes up to the hand,) bending the arm and essentially making the gunman point the gun at his own face. (edit: you also move left or right to be out of the line of fire depending on which hand your are leading with) A quick kick to the groin (only after the gun has been pointed away from you) while your right hand (if executing the right handed - #9 block - move) moves to the barrel of the gun, open handed, pushing it towards the gunman's arm to remove it from his grasp.
I've practiced this nearly 1000 times since learning it and, as I said, now takes less than a second to execute.
It's extremely possible to defend from a gun pointed at your chest or head if he's within grasp. Is it advised? No.
Edit: Obviously practicing it and doing it in a real situation are 2 different things, but still, I believe that if I needed to defend myself from such a situation, I would be able to.
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jaypo
Purple Belt
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 520
Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:16 am Post subject: |
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You can also break the finger of the attacker using the trigger guard to trap his trigger finger in that technique, can't you, Darksoul?
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darksoul
Purple Belt
Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Posts: 548
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Styles: Shaolin Kempo
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| jaypo wrote: |
| You can also break the finger of the attacker using the trigger guard to trap his trigger finger in that technique, can't you, Darksoul? |
Yes, absolutely.
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