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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:40 pm    Post subject: Wing Chun Oceanic Style Kung Fu Theory with Sensitivity! Reply with quote

Cannot help think that Wing Chun is a fighting style that is seaworthy. Or was developed for sailors. If so, this changes Wing Chun's persona considerably. I tend to believe that those that used the style or developed it were very strong and agile people that sailed the high seas or worked on fishing vessels perhaps. If the stories of the Wing Chun origin were temporarily put to one side for a moment and temporarily replaced with a root from seaworthy martial artist, a new breed of martial artists is discoverd or born. Sailors of the past were very strong due to there daily tasks of fishing with nets and keeping a ship or boat afloat. The Wing Chun weapons (the butterfly knives and the extra long wooden pole) are very much in keeping with seafarers. The 'mook jong' wooden dummy is in keeping also with a ships sailing mast. The Wing Chun center line theory could be without much imagination be based on the brow of a boat. Also the Wing Chun propreceptive training would be very advantages for trying to balance on a sailing vessel while in combat. What if; Oceanic Wing Chun?

Last edited by Alan Armstrong on Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Spartacus Maximus
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While it is an interesting idea to entertain, chances are that it is just romantic speculation. This idea is similar to the popular notion that Okinawan peasants and fishermen developed what became karate.

The historical truth is martial arts training was reserved for the aristocracy, the nobility or members of the Court. These were the only types of people who had the time and the means to train. Many of them going to Fukien China to train, where many reknowned experts taught several different systems of kung fu.

It is very likely the situation in China was the same and common folk such as fishermen would not have had the luxury of resources and time to spend on developing or training a martial art. Consider the main figures of Wing Chun and look at what social class they came from. Ip Man, for example was quite wealthy and belonged to the upper economic class.
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wing Chun is none traditional Kung Fu. Yet is said to come from Shaolin monks. The Shaolin temples were legal sanctuarys for many outlaws. Shaolin monks absorbed many fighting styles from travelers. Nothing of Wing Chun is animal or insect based. For me there is still a feeling or intuition that Wing Chun was devised from aloft a sailing vessel. Most styles of martial arts we don't think or dispute that they were intended for fighting on dry land. How difficult is it with a little leap of the imagination that Wing Chun is Oceanic in nature? Ip Man was from an affluent background but this doesn't mean the style's origin is also. People on sailing vessels needed self defense just as much as people on dry land. Martial art combative techniques on a sailing vessel would differ because of the movements caused buy being afloat on water; Wing Chun stances and stepping or sliding in this case work perfectly with this idea also. Same holds true for using the Chi Sao techniques.
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more I contemplates on Wing Chun as an Oceanic martial art still the more it makes sense to me that it very well could be. Wing Chun is a practical style that lends it's self well to fighting on a boat and on dry land; how about on ice also. Wing Chun on frozen water would still work because of the sliding footwork method. Wing Chun has been described as a geometric style because of the use of triangles for strength in stances and body positioning, straight lines for attacking as the shotest distance and simple twisting curves when simultaneously striking- blocking and deflecting. Geometry is how sailors navigate along coastal waters, it would stand to reason that geometry could also be good for fighting with also. Wing Chun is supposed to be invented by a female yet I see more females leaning towards Tai Chi for instance. I don't imagine women banging their forearms on a wooden post to toughen up their muscles or bones either. The people I see attending Wing Chun seminars look like American football players and not women or feminine men. There is a sensitivity aspect in the 'Chi Sao' practice. Also sensitivity to fishing with a rod while one of the two main weapons of Wing Chun just happens to be a rod. Also the same muscles to pull a fishing net on board a boat are similar to the hunched forward arched back and using the arms in a circular motion in Wing Chun. My theory is not to dispute history altogether. Wing Chun is said to be 300 years old. Could have went through many adaptations in all that time. Shaolin monks techniques and principles are open and honest; Wing Chun techniques are a contradiction to their belief system. One of the points that I'm drifting towards is the similarities of the names of Greenland and Iceland. Greenland has more ice and snow than Iceland. As Iceland is a greener place than Greenland. Could it be the same for Wing Chun for misinformation purposes. Wing Chun has one of the best deceptive hands systems around! Could the Wing Chun story of being invented by a woman be a ploy to deter macho men? If Wing Chun is Oceanic, then the training methods could be improved upon. I suggest using ropes within the conditioning process. For example to climb up and using ropes ladders as the military use in basic training. Ropes do have a similarity to arms also, don't you think? I have noticed some Wing Chun practitioners adapting the arms of the wooded training dummy for arms that have springs. The same idea but with thick rope could also make for an interesting Wing Chun training aid for grabbing and trapping techniques. The mook jong wooden training dummy looks to me as if it's original function was intended for wrapping rope around it and latter adapted for fighting practice equipment. Wing Chun is a very profound style of Kung Fu. There are sensitivity and propreceptive aspects still to be discovered within this style. Bruce Lee found just a few hidden gems in Wing Chun; what's next to be discovered?
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never talked about Wing Chun on a boat idea with my instructor. He is on the third level of Wing Chun. His teacher's teacher was Ip Man. The sensitivity training my Wing Chun teacher taught to me was very intriguing. I showed him my Wing Chun library, thinking that it would show how interested and keen I am in the style. He told me to "throw them away" He believed that Wing Chun can only be transmitted from teacher to student and not from books. I learned from him the sensitivity aspects of Wing Chun. Over time I have elaborate his teachings in other martial art ways. The touch and speed aspects of Wing Chun can make a martial artist with practice a formidable opponent. The sliding feet is bad form from a boxing standpoint but makes perfect sense within the Wing Chun system. Pivoting while stationary makes techniques quicker to deploy and more stable as opposed to lifting one foot off the ground. Having both feet touching the ground as much as possible, is just the start to explain one of the many propreceptive aspects of Wing Chun. Explaining the sensitivity aspects of Wing Chun is going to be a challenge for me to explain and without physical contact will not be easy for you to understand. With a little time and patience, most difficult things are possible. To Be Continued ...
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Propreceptive skills is how I view Wing Chun. The power to be touched and also touch transmits powerful Information from one human to another. We generally live in a none touch society. There is acceptable touch and of course none acceptable touch also. Wing Chun is based on touch and speed. When a Wing Chun man touches his forarm to yours he can gather and process that information very fast to win a fight. As in the every day world, touch is not analyzed or perceived differently for most people but to a Wing Chun martial artist the power of touch is like having second sight. If a Wing Chun man's forarm touches yours (lets say in a block for instance) you will feel the contact and he feels the same right. So now you are both for an instant are connected with each others forarms. A skilled Wing Chun fighter can slide his forarm on top of yours to deliver a punch to your face. The reason for this is because your brain has registered the pressure of the Wing Chun man's forarm but has not registerd any movment by him, because he has skillfully kept the same pressure touching your forarm. You can see the punch coming towards you but your brain is not able to react quick enough to the skilled misinformation tactic used by the Wing Chun fighter... To be continued
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sensitivity training starts with practicing balancing one forarm on a clothes rack or a bar for example. While out shopping with my wife in a ladies wear store, it is an ideal opportunity for me to practice my Wing Chun. Casually resting my forarm on a clothes rack. I am not holding my arm there, I'm actually resting it there, being careful not to put any pressure on it or lifting it slightly would be wrong. It would also be wrong to use any muscle or force whatsoever. What I'm doing is practicing having my arm in a neutral position. By practicing this technique of resting my forarm in this neutral position, I will be able to sense any movement. As my arm is not moving but resting in neutral when or if in a clinch, I will be able to sense my opponent's immediate intensions. Giving me countering advantages. Also try switching forarms replacing one with the other. Try to do it in such a way as if your opponent cannot feel or notice the change. This is only one small but important part of understanding the sensitivity aspect; there is more to it than that. In Wing Chun, the real practice sessions, start with drills, these sensitivity training sessions is called 'sticky hands' it is also called 'Chi Sao' it is done with a partner. ( A spider on it's web doesn't move. It remains nutral so it can be able to sense any movement that is not it's own ) This neutral touching concept is used in Tai Chi 'push hands' practice also. To be continued ...
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Wing Chun ready position differs greatly from one person to another. What I believe to be the right position is not how it looks when practicing on the wooden dummy or while doing a Wing Chun form. It is actually an intense combat ready position. With the back arched forward, making for bad posture but combat ready. Shoulders hunched forward causing a hollowed out chest effect. The head is pointing forward and the neck is curved forward following the curve of the spine. Arms are placed on the centre line in the on guard position, with one hand behind the other. Now here is what differs from the sensitivity point of view, the wrists are kept loose with both hands aimed towards the opponent, in a ready to shake hands type of way. Some people actually make their hands shake to put them in a type of ultra readiness state. Once there is the slightest touch from the attacker, the wrists flick the hands up, that sets them in motion for action. If the hands are already pointing upward and tense with the fingers spread out, like many people do, they will miss out on this very quick touch and flick reaction. This whole ready for action combination of body posture is not pretty or artistic to see. Practicing this posture is not recommended from an exercising or correct body posturing perspective. This Wing Chun bad posture on guard stance is intended for fighting and not for anything else but to win fights. The sensitivity starts from the split second initial contact of an opponent and it doesn't stop there. To be continued ...

Last edited by Alan Armstrong on Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Continuing and focusing on this Wing Chun sensitivity aspect, hopefully will help you to appreciate some finer points of this Kung Fu system of fighting. Usally fighting is associated with toughness and not sensitivity. Sensitivity can be associated with weakness but from a Wing Chun fighter's point of view, if done correctly, it is a winning hand. If a Wing Chun man is investing his time practicing and appreciating the sensitivity aspects of his style to be a complete style the opposites need to be taken in to consideration. So how does the Wing Chun fighter do this. He tries to make his opponent less sensitive than himself. The slap block is how. Wing Chun has the inside and outside slap block at his disposal. The slap blocks are intended to desensitize his opponents defensive arms. This way he gains another advantage over his opponent. The slap will numb that area rendering it temporarily stinging and momentarily stunned giving the Wing Chun fighter more possibilities to attack or counter attack and less possibilities for the opponent to react. The initial slap can easily change in to a grab or punch. As Wing Chun is based on touch and speed, this stunning effect can be used very effectively with an attack strategy. A very quick ( with one hand ) five slaps per-second to the opponent's face makes for a very good initial opening tactic. To be continued ...
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Making your opponent less sensitive is one thing and making him overly sensitive is another useful tactic. Having your opponent over react is another sensitivity option for the Wing Chun fighter. A regular feint is one option but in Wing Chun a feint with sensitivity still wins the day. A palm press feint is only one of many that can be used against those unfamiliar with Wing Chun methodology. Press or put pressure against some one and their natural reaction is to put pressure back. As you feel the pressure being returned that will be the right moment to slip around that pressure and grab with that hand the opponent wrist and attack with the other hand. As you and your opponent are looking at each other eye to eye, you don't need to look down, as he needs to do, to see what is happening, because sensitivity training has given the advantage to you. If pressure is put against a Wing Chun man, he will also be able to seize the moment to his advantage. By simply turning softly and slipping away with the pressure applied against him on one side while the other side is going to be dramatically different attacking with force. As the attackers touch has set in to motion the Wing Chun man's counter attack responses, developed from pressure sensitivity training. To be continued ...
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