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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2419


PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bare knuckle karate where punching to the head is illegal but kneeing to the head is legit.

Ironically that a knee strike to the head (which is legal) can be a lot more powerful than a punch,

Where when the opponent is knocked down or out the other Kneels down showing the back.

https://youtu.be/ceCXaPa5UkE

It is interesting for me, to see how many variations there are in karate tournament rules, where depending on the organization, being declared the winner for doing the same thing but for different reasons
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14811
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps tournaments involving the MA should be banned all together because while they act as some type of a test, they're one of the most ineffective means to reach an honest conclusion of any type.

Imho!!




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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2419


PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be ironically worth pointing out that, if not for accidents in some karate tournaments, then no one would get hurt.

Perhaps in the future there will be a none contact UFC tournament that looks like this
https://youtu.be/_K0Djf5cqvs ROFL
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2419


PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How tournament scoring systems difffer:

WKF Kumite Point Scoring System
https://youtu.be/c6r8JwEFowY

TKD Point Scoring System
https://youtu.be/Tni1XQF5Iug

Sanda Point Scoring System
https://youtu.be/aKw7Duic4E8

In tournaments with mixed styles Sanda rules can be adopted.
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Bulltahr
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 653
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Styles: Shotokan, Seido Juku

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuff happens! and the intent was to mawashi not hiza I believe. Blue left his whole right side un-covered and went in and found a knee. Dunno about WKF but Blue wins in my book......
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Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 412
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Appearance matters in all combat sports. There is judging in most sports of perceived aggression and passivity, and the effectiveness of landed strikes or techniques that have connected. Most forms of point competition have rules about the appearance of techniques: to score they must be “seen” to have been performed correctly. In Knock-Down Karate and Full-Contact Tae Kwon Do, a technique must be seen to affect the recipient, or for enough force to have been registered to score. In most professional combat sports, the metrics of judging strikes landed is based on the appearance of the technique and reaction to it. It is a judging aspect that is integral to objective judging in Combat sports.

I think the important thing to keep in mind is that combat sports are just that: sports. From the perspective of Familienähnlichkeit, they are indivisible from combative and self-defence systems. The techniques, the conditioning, and certain essential tactics are one in the same. If a punch knocks a person out in the cage, it will knock a person out anywhere to give an example of this. However, in watching a combat sport you are not watching a fight: you are watching two people play a game.

Now, certain rule sets such as MMA and Vale Tudo, with their full contact nature and limited restrictions on what you can do, are incredibly close to an actual fight. However, there is still a referee, there are still boundaries of conduct, and there are still conditions of winning and losing. It is still a game, and so every game needs to be evaluated on its own merits.

If you want a game which will tests people’s skills in a way that map to actual incidences of physical violence: then it must be full-contact, and it must lack restrictions on what techniques are allowed. However, a combat sport does not need to map exactly to actual, physical violence. All it need do is be based on skills derived from martial arts and place them in the context of competition.

Point sparring does test timing, distancing, and precision, and to an extent the quality of one’s striking techniques. Kick-boxing tests one’s striking ability, toughness, and mental fortitude. Submission grappling tests one’s wrestling ability, submission awareness, and positional controls, as well as the ability to apply locks and holds. Free-Fighting presents a situation where all the potential aspects of fighting are present. MMA and Vale Tudo present one of the few sports where you can face the worst-case scenario of physical violence: someone on top of you trying to pummel you into unconsciousness.

Ultimately, it comes down to your goals and what you want to do. Playing a game of point fighting has no purpose for you if it does not fit with your general goals. Yet, if you enjoy it and find it fun, why not just enjoy. Now if your aim is realistic self-defence, however, MMA might supply a venue to test your skills in a more relevant setting. My overall point being, there is no king of combat sports, and when we get into the perspective of judging one against another we might as well be judging people for playing football/soccer instead of Rugby.

As a competitor, I have come full circle. I started in Shiai Kumite according to WKF rules as a pre-teen, Semi-Contact/Kick-Light until I 13-16, Knock-Down 16-18, and then as a young adult worked my way through Low-Kick, Oriental rules, and Muay Thai on the Pro-Am level in an effort to make a career of it. I have dabbled in Sport Jujutsu, Free-Style Judo, Cornish Jacket Wrestling, Scottish Back-Hold Wrestling, and Amasumo in the world of grappling. I have fought three times under Shootfighting rules, competed in Kudo, Combat SOMBO, and Combudo Tournaments, and have an exhibition MMA match to my name. I have also been a bouncer in another life and had to use my skills in self-defence on several occasions. What that taught me is that all combat sports have something to do with fighting, but no combat sport is about fighting: it is about playing the game. Whether you are good at that game is whether you train for that game.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2419


PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Appearance matters in all combat sports.

What appears to be happening here?

https://youtu.be/x8NAuXWFKoI

The way I see this new fight is that, one fighter has been trained how to connect effectively against an opponent, whilst the other person has been trained not to.

There are many reasons why fights like these continue to show up, as reality has been lost and has been replaced with something else other than reality.

Call it tradition, dogmas or "organised despair" as Bruce Lee called it.

As training for fighting can be for nothing, similar to a long road that leads nowhere, if the element of reality is always missing.

https://youtu.be/_BJo7YA9tno

Could it just be that the lack of preparation is missing?

https://youtu.be/w1aDTFeCl-w

How did none contact martial arts ever become legitimate?

In other words, how has a striking art become none striking?

Imagine for a second if boxing takes the same path?

Wel,l boxing has just like Tai Chi to promote health and fitness, taking the fighting skills out of combat!

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JazzKicker
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 142
Location: NJ
Styles: JKD, TSD, MMA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not familiar with the rules here, but clearly what happened, intentional or not, was a TKO.
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