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How should a kata be performed?
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To its tempo, its natural speed. |
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22% |
[ 4 ] |
With speed to be the fastest in competion. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
Full kihon and full power |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
Full speed, kihon and power |
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27% |
[ 5 ] |
It should be as taught by the ancient masters. (Please describe) |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
Speed and power where that is the teaching of the kata. |
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16% |
[ 3 ] |
..other.. |
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22% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 18 |
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Message |
Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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 Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| Kusotare wrote: |
My knowledge of Kyokushin kata is limited, however from a general "budo" perspective, the tempo / speed of performance is something that you "absorb" from your instructor - as part of the kata "Omote".
K. |
yes! (to my shame) these are the phrases, terms I've been trying to find when trying to explain why I'm asking about kata tempo etc...
Budo & Omote
to me this translates as kata spirit, kata tempo.... not "when performing kata, you must think like the fastest gunslinger in the west!"
Or
"your a big lad, do everything with full power show how strong you are!"
Budo, Omote......the art in Martial Arts!
_________________
“A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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Kusotare
Purple Belt
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 574
Styles: Traditional Japanese Karate, Koryu Bujutsu (Jujutsu, Iaido and Kenjutsu)
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Hawkmoon wrote: |
| Kusotare wrote: |
My knowledge of Kyokushin kata is limited, however from a general "budo" perspective, the tempo / speed of performance is something that you "absorb" from your instructor - as part of the kata "Omote".
K. |
yes! (to my shame) these are the phrases, terms I've been trying to find when trying to explain why I'm asking about kata tempo etc...
Budo & Omote
to me this translates as kata spirit, kata tempo.... not "when performing kata, you must think like the fastest gunslinger in the west!"
Or
"your a big lad, do everything with full power show how strong you are!"
Budo, Omote......the art in Martial Arts! |
To be clear - Budo is not a way to perform kata, it is what we are all doing in the broader context when we study a martial way.
To understand a kata based pedagogy you have to appreciate that first off, students need to learn the omote form of the Kata.
Omote is like window shopping. Its the very visible external form of the Kata.
After internalising the omote form, the student can then go on to explore the "Ura" (or under the surface).
This means going beyond the shopfront and exploring the deeper principles found with the kata that I mentioned in my earlier post.
The duration of a kata performance is irrelevant really - as long as you are meeting the core reasons for training that kata in the first place.
K.
_________________
Usque ad mortem bibendum! |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16439
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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How should a Kata be performed? To the very best of their abilities. Their best will need to be examined from time to time.
Imho!!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Kusotare
Purple Belt
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 574
Styles: Traditional Japanese Karate, Koryu Bujutsu (Jujutsu, Iaido and Kenjutsu)
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
How should a Kata be performed? To the very best of their abilities. Their best will need to be examined from time to time.
Imho!!
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A good sensei doesn't examine from time to time. His job is to constantly correct and advise.
The shiai-Jo and the dojo are distinctly different places.
K.
_________________
Usque ad mortem bibendum! |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16439
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Kusotare wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
How should a Kata be performed? To the very best of their abilities. Their best will need to be examined from time to time.
Imho!!
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A good sensei doesn't examine from time to time. His job is to constantly correct and advise.
The shiai-Jo and the dojo are distinctly different places.
K. |
True, however, I was speaking about the MAist in general and not the Sensei/Instructor having to examine from time to time.
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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CredoTe
Red Belt
Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 776
Location: Ohio, USA
Styles: Matsubayashi-Ryu (Shorin-Ryu), Hung Gar (Hung Siu Lum)
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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IMHO, a kata should be performed to it's natural speed...
Wouldn't a kata's "natural speed" depend both on the natural speed of the instructor and natural speed of the practitioner? Thus, a student does "inherit" a kata's speed from his/her instructor, but his/her own natural speed is applied, as well. Indeed, as the practitioner's speed improves, so does his/her kata's natural speed.
This brings another question to mind... Isn't the "full speed" of a kata the natural speed of a kata?
Also, IMHO, natural speed implies full power...
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Remember the Tii!
In Life and Death, there is no tap-out... |
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| I said with full speed, kihon, and power. Each move should be done fast (unless it is supposed to be a slow/tension technique), and with the speed comes power, and focus is necessary, I would say. |
....could this be 're-quoted' to say its natural tempo perhaps?
I get the desire for speed, I get the desire for power.
I have in my life gone from lightweight to heavy weight fighter! (I sooo wish this was an exaggeration ..... sadly it is true! I went form being a 17 years old stick insect at about 63Kg to 40'odd year old and over 87kg!)
BUT, this is the modern world, kata came form a time and truly a world long since past away into the history books, there was no preconceptions about body size and competitions, it was war live or die ..do your best and die with honor or win and fight another day!
kata was the art in the true sence of that word, martial 'art'.
ie:
It is/was tradition to learn it to understand how to transition the body form one position/stance to another, why it was done 'that way' ...
...its here that I'm interested.
To me the next part of that sentence is... to show the correct form, be this slow or fast.
Which can only mean a kata when performed must finish in about the same amount of time as the last or next person!
(Speaking generally, accepting that there are a few exceptions)
_________________
“A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Hawkmoon wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| I said with full speed, kihon, and power. Each move should be done fast (unless it is supposed to be a slow/tension technique), and with the speed comes power, and focus is necessary, I would say. |
....could this be 're-quoted' to say its natural tempo perhaps? |
Yes, that would probably be a better way to put it.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:14 am Post subject: |
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..so a kata has an elapse time to be performed in.
So a kata when performed by 5 or 505 students will be completed in about the same time as the master took to do the same kata perfectly?
So time to perform is a valid measure of a kata? Where as the desire to be faster or the fastest is a modern and potentially bad thing that is being introduced in the MA these days?
_________________
“A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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on the post.
