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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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 Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Ever consider Judo? You mentioned wrestling. I may be wrong, but what I've seen of Judo is more standing than wrestling and BJJ. From what I've seen of the three, Judo makes the most sense to me - heavy on throws, some chokes, and some joint locks. Seems like the best compliment to a striker - when it gets too close for striking, throw them to the ground (they like saying hitting with the entire planet) and choke them out or submit them.
If I have the chance and itch to start something completely new one of these years, it'll be Judo. I had more than my fill with being on the mat constantly during wrestling. BJJ seems to be even more on the mat time to me. And my favorite part of wrestling was throws. |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| JR 137 wrote: |
Ever consider Judo? You mentioned wrestling. I may be wrong, but what I've seen of Judo is more standing than wrestling and BJJ. From what I've seen of the three, Judo makes the most sense to me - heavy on throws, some chokes, and some joint locks. Seems like the best compliment to a striker - when it gets too close for striking, throw them to the ground (they like saying hitting with the entire planet) and choke them out or submit them.
If I have the chance and itch to start something completely new one of these years, it'll be Judo. I had more than my fill with being on the mat constantly during wrestling. BJJ seems to be even more on the mat time to me. And my favorite part of wrestling was throws. |
JR 137, good advice, great observation and an excellent point of view!!! |
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Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 676
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| Luther unleashed wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
This could also be an appreciation and recognition issue holding belts in many styles or Dans in one style.
Which again falls in to marketing oneself and showing credibility to others.
For a career martial artist these aspects are important as we live in a society that is structured around credentials and authenticity. |
I hear what you're saying, I'm not sure if you're saying that this is something that I am into because it definitely isn't, like I said I trained in martial arts that don't offer any rank so not really the issue for me. I think the black belt is just a good stopping point if you were going to have one that's all.
I don't see belts as carrying the same weight as a lot of people do because I trained in many styles I've seen such a huge variation in the standard so it means less to me personally. Also training in styles that have no belt system whatsoever I recognize the high level of skill and understanding one can have without a single belt .
You are definitely right though, I have seen instructors who are very knowledgeable on the surface meeting with the traditions and patterns and so on and so forth but really lacking any in-depth understanding, me on the other hand I feel I have a much more in-depth understanding than the average person who six out martial arts and learns in this manner. Belts can be used as a nice symbol but in the end they are just a marker and everybody holds a different Idea of how to use them.
Edit: just to give you an example when I trained in Tong Che Bahk Do, I armed the black belt alongside other students. Because of my background and being much closer to the chief instructor I was on a very different level and was teaching black belts Texas before I was even one myself. In general I think it works is a good defining marker but that's only in general and sometimes it just isn't going to give you a true concept of the abilities of the person wearing it. I taught this art, an held a higher standard then many teachers I saw teaching it WRONG. It wasn't the way it was taught to them. They went on to earn 2nd Dan and I didn't have the ability for reasons that are too long to explain but him closing was one of them. If rank is all that matters I suppose some will choose to go learn from the 2nd or 3rd Dan, rather then the first but I assure you that doesn't always add up the way they assume it does.
My point is that I'm not Belt chasing, simply finding a good point to try new, and add to my skills in a different way. |
Belt chasing isn't a very good career option, style curiosity is more plausible.
Changing curriculum is something I have experience in and yes it is fun and motivating to start a new journey.
It also carries with it a new set of problems as not belonging to any particular style (completely) can put a person in a lone Wolf situation.
Learning many styles is rewarding but by default can make a person knowledgeable, that ironically isn't always a popular position to be in.
As having different styles (experience) under one's belt gives that person more options to draw from.
In today's world, it is more possible than ever to be a white belt in one style and to be able to defeat the Black belt instructor, due to holding multiple belts in other styles, of course possessing valuable knowledge and experience.
A little off topic but...
Must admit that I have learned more from my defeats and the bullies that picked on me, as they showed me my weakness.
Not all martial artist appreciate their defeats as I do. Sure, being beaten up buy thugs, or tuff guys isn't what many people want to remember.
Yet thugs and tuff guys all come from different styles and or backgrounds. The variety of my defeats defies definition. Learning many types of combat can be addictive, for some.
So if I had a choice to be a Tenth degree black belt or hold Ten black belts in ten different styles, my answer would be; neither.
Expressing myself, with techniques that works for me and not abiding to others that worked for them, make sense.
I will and can learn something from everyone, with or without style or belts, of course experienced advice saves alot of time and pain in the long run.
My advice is to be "NOT" like me.
Rather:
Pick one style and stick with it.
Be the best you can be at that style.
Stick with your CI through thick and thin.
Promote and teach this style and pass it on.
Put your family first, work second and MA last. |
I suppose the thing that stands out most in this is the lone wolf thing. I disagree. It's probably different in different parts of the country or even in different countries but the acceptance of blending of arts and things like that is it an all-time high. I don't think that makes you a lone wolf. When my instructor mixed things up and taught Kung Fu, he had Moo Duk Kwan Tang soo Do instructors at the testing table. At times he probably did not even know what he was looking at what the support was there because authenticity is not always mean sticking to one style, at least it doesn't mean it anymore.
Chuck Norris was in a video I saw ones talking about how learning more styles is better and it struck me because I realized how American it is that we just love to combine things. Not all Americans of course it's just a broad generalization that I think fits more people than not these days. Of course this was back in the 80s, but still.
As for sticking with your instructor I'm a firm believer or of never committing to a person in that manner. Not for your path. I have done it, and although I'm thankful for what I learned in my particular brand of TSD, when thins changed and he eventually packed it up and left, I had no other options. in this way you will only be safe if you picked an extremely popular lineage in your area or in Arts like taekwondo but in reality you could move and all of that could change as far as what is popular in the area and reasonable for you to continue training. I moved as a kid A LOT, and sticking to one thing wasn't so easy, it also wasn't something I cared much about, because it wasn't even about seeking out different styles as much as it was finding a place I was interested in. Whether it was the same or whether was different was not the biggest importance to me growing up, it was that I liked the instructor and the place and that's all. This is how I found Tong Che Bahk Do. It is a highbred martial art that many would look down upon because it is blended but as I said these days it's going that way more. I do not care what Skyler was, I watched through the window and saw the presence of the master instructor and the way he talked and I knew right away I was joining. He could have said it any Marshall her name and I would not have cared the least. In the end when I'm trying to say it's not that I chase different styles but more so that because of my circumstances have a learn to enjoy switching. I'm not saying everybody should switch or that everybody should not but I'm just pointing out that there are many positives that I see in switching because I have lived a life of doing it. it sounds wrong the way I have sad because in reality I'm just saying that I have grown to appreciate different. Over the last few years me moving on with circumstantial because I own a black belt and ran with it to a new place. But I am simply finding the positives in it and realizing there are ways it can be better.
_________________
Hustle and hard work are a substitute for talent! |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Luther unleashed wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| Luther unleashed wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
This could also be an appreciation and recognition issue holding belts in many styles or Dans in one style.
Which again falls in to marketing oneself and showing credibility to others.
For a career martial artist these aspects are important as we live in a society that is structured around credentials and authenticity. |
I hear what you're saying, I'm not sure if you're saying that this is something that I am into because it definitely isn't, like I said I trained in martial arts that don't offer any rank so not really the issue for me. I think the black belt is just a good stopping point if you were going to have one that's all.
I don't see belts as carrying the same weight as a lot of people do because I trained in many styles I've seen such a huge variation in the standard so it means less to me personally. Also training in styles that have no belt system whatsoever I recognize the high level of skill and understanding one can have without a single belt .
You are definitely right though, I have seen instructors who are very knowledgeable on the surface meeting with the traditions and patterns and so on and so forth but really lacking any in-depth understanding, me on the other hand I feel I have a much more in-depth understanding than the average person who six out martial arts and learns in this manner. Belts can be used as a nice symbol but in the end they are just a marker and everybody holds a different Idea of how to use them.
Edit: just to give you an example when I trained in Tong Che Bahk Do, I armed the black belt alongside other students. Because of my background and being much closer to the chief instructor I was on a very different level and was teaching black belts Texas before I was even one myself. In general I think it works is a good defining marker but that's only in general and sometimes it just isn't going to give you a true concept of the abilities of the person wearing it. I taught this art, an held a higher standard then many teachers I saw teaching it WRONG. It wasn't the way it was taught to them. They went on to earn 2nd Dan and I didn't have the ability for reasons that are too long to explain but him closing was one of them. If rank is all that matters I suppose some will choose to go learn from the 2nd or 3rd Dan, rather then the first but I assure you that doesn't always add up the way they assume it does.
My point is that I'm not Belt chasing, simply finding a good point to try new, and add to my skills in a different way. |
Belt chasing isn't a very good career option, style curiosity is more plausible.
Changing curriculum is something I have experience in and yes it is fun and motivating to start a new journey.
It also carries with it a new set of problems as not belonging to any particular style (completely) can put a person in a lone Wolf situation.
Learning many styles is rewarding but by default can make a person knowledgeable, that ironically isn't always a popular position to be in.
As having different styles (experience) under one's belt gives that person more options to draw from.
In today's world, it is more possible than ever to be a white belt in one style and to be able to defeat the Black belt instructor, due to holding multiple belts in other styles, of course possessing valuable knowledge and experience.
A little off topic but...
Must admit that I have learned more from my defeats and the bullies that picked on me, as they showed me my weakness.
Not all martial artist appreciate their defeats as I do. Sure, being beaten up buy thugs, or tuff guys isn't what many people want to remember.
Yet thugs and tuff guys all come from different styles and or backgrounds. The variety of my defeats defies definition. Learning many types of combat can be addictive, for some.
So if I had a choice to be a Tenth degree black belt or hold Ten black belts in ten different styles, my answer would be; neither.
Expressing myself, with techniques that works for me and not abiding to others that worked for them, make sense.
I will and can learn something from everyone, with or without style or belts, of course experienced advice saves alot of time and pain in the long run.
My advice is to be "NOT" like me.
Rather:
Pick one style and stick with it.
Be the best you can be at that style.
Stick with your CI through thick and thin.
Promote and teach this style and pass it on.
Put your family first, work second and MA last. |
I suppose the thing that stands out most in this is the lone wolf thing. I disagree. It's probably different in different parts of the country or even in different countries but the acceptance of blending of arts and things like that is it an all-time high. I don't think that makes you a lone wolf. When my instructor mixed things up and taught Kung Fu, he had Moo Duk Kwan Tang soo Do instructors at the testing table. At times he probably did not even know what he was looking at what the support was there because authenticity is not always mean sticking to one style, at least it doesn't mean it anymore.
Chuck Norris was in a video I saw ones talking about how learning more styles is better and it struck me because I realized how American it is that we just love to combine things. Not all Americans of course it's just a broad generalization that I think fits more people than not these days. Of course this was back in the 80s, but still.
As for sticking with your instructor I'm a firm believer or of never committing to a person in that manner. Not for your path. I have done it, and although I'm thankful for what I learned in my particular brand of TSD, when thins changed and he eventually packed it up and left, I had no other options. in this way you will only be safe if you picked an extremely popular lineage in your area or in Arts like taekwondo but in reality you could move and all of that could change as far as what is popular in the area and reasonable for you to continue training. I moved as a kid A LOT, and sticking to one thing wasn't so easy, it also wasn't something I cared much about, because it wasn't even about seeking out different styles as much as it was finding a place I was interested in. Whether it was the same or whether was different was not the biggest importance to me growing up, it was that I liked the instructor and the place and that's all. This is how I found Tong Che Bahk Do. It is a highbred martial art that many would look down upon because it is blended but as I said these days it's going that way more. I do not care what Skyler was, I watched through the window and saw the presence of the master instructor and the way he talked and I knew right away I was joining. He could have said it any Marshall her name and I would not have cared the least. In the end when I'm trying to say it's not that I chase different styles but more so that because of my circumstances have a learn to enjoy switching. I'm not saying everybody should switch or that everybody should not but I'm just pointing out that there are many positives that I see in switching because I have lived a life of doing it. it sounds wrong the way I have sad because in reality I'm just saying that I have grown to appreciate different. Over the last few years me moving on with circumstantial because I own a black belt and ran with it to a new place. But I am simply finding the positives in it and realizing there are ways it can be better. |
Having a positive attitude is important, negative thinking usually doesn't produce positive results; yet to accept that one cannot exist without the other, making the best of the situation is always advisable.
Lone Wolf or not, Black belt or not, style or not, speaking from experience when one door closes another miraculously opens.
All of us are products of past martial artists, as their hard work and dedication have shaped and developed what we know and do up till this point in time.
Appreciate and be thankful to our martial art for fathers/mothers as they are the real ones that have helped us with our aspirations and accomplishments.
Be humble with this aspect and let past put real substance in to your martial art journey. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Wastelander wrote: |
sensei8 - Thank you for the plug! Lex and I are friends on Facebook, and he has a standing invitation--we'd be happy to have him. For what it's worth, my Sensei is a Godan, so higher than the website (that needs updated  ) and lower than your estimation.
With regard to the subject at hand, I would say that no ranks are equal across systems, so a first degree black belt in one style might be a green belt in another, or a third degree black belt in another. You can't really go by belts for consistency. Learning to the point where you feel ready to move on is going to be a personal decision, and shouldn't really be associated with a belt rank. I will say that, as a general rule, one should try to develop a deep understanding of an art, even if they explore the wider world of martial arts out there. Cross-training is a great thing to do, and will absolutely benefit you, but there is something to be said for really fine-tuning your body to the mechanics and methods of your style, and supplementing that with other material. |
Thanks for letting me know Sensei Poage's currently a Godan, not a Rokudan, as I thought; his obi made me think that. A matter of fact, in reading the "Meet the Peaceful Warrior team" link at your dojo's webside, it does state "Renshi, 5th Dan", which I missed that bit of detail. In Shindokan, a Renshi must be a 6th Dan for consideration. The plug was my honor, as I fully honor and respect Sensei Poage, Peaceful Warrior Martial Arts, as well as his entire Student Body...especially you, Noah!!
A solid post, on your part, as well, Noah. Not every rank is equal; not even the slightest at all!! Knowledge...experience are the core of each and every rank!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 676
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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I think that many of my ideas and beliefs are against the grain so to speak. I often feel very strange having such different ideas then so many others. In the end though I am ok with it because as long as I'm content where I'm at and what I do works for me and my students as being a teacher, then I will be ok with different in some regard.
In the end, I suppose it's just a matter of me being less likely to follow in others footsteps as I find incredible peace in being a complete individual who follows his heart. Nothing but respect for the bunch of you! I enjoy your input and knowledge in martial arts, please forgive me for being a sore thumb as that's what it feels like sometimes. I must like the workout of swimming against the tide or something lol.
_________________
Hustle and hard work are a substitute for talent! |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Luther unleashed wrote: |
I think that many of my ideas and beliefs are against the grain so to speak. I often feel very strange having such different ideas then so many others. In the end though I am ok with it because as long as I'm content where I'm at and what I do works for me and my students as being a teacher, then I will be ok with different in some regard.
In the end, I suppose it's just a matter of me being less likely to follow in others footsteps as I find incredible peace in being a complete individual who follows his heart. Nothing but respect for the bunch of you! I enjoy your input and knowledge in martial arts, please forgive me for being a sore thumb as that's what it feels like sometimes. I must like the workout of swimming against the tide or something lol. |
This is a virtual Dojo Forum; as good a place as any to learn, make mistakes and grow from the experiences just like a real Dojo.
Being different isn't wrong; in a Bruce Lee academy you would get top marks for expressing yourself honestly.
Well done Luther unleashed! |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2734
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| Wastelander wrote: |
sensei8 - Thank you for the plug! Lex and I are friends on Facebook, and he has a standing invitation--we'd be happy to have him. For what it's worth, my Sensei is a Godan, so higher than the website (that needs updated ) and lower than your estimation.
With regard to the subject at hand, I would say that no ranks are equal across systems, so a first degree black belt in one style might be a green belt in another, or a third degree black belt in another. You can't really go by belts for consistency. Learning to the point where you feel ready to move on is going to be a personal decision, and shouldn't really be associated with a belt rank. I will say that, as a general rule, one should try to develop a deep understanding of an art, even if they explore the wider world of martial arts out there. Cross-training is a great thing to do, and will absolutely benefit you, but there is something to be said for really fine-tuning your body to the mechanics and methods of your style, and supplementing that with other material. |
Thanks for letting me know Sensei Poage's currently a Godan, not a Rokudan, as I thought; his obi made me think that. A matter of fact, in reading the "Meet the Peaceful Warrior team" link at your dojo's webside, it does state "Renshi, 5th Dan", which I missed that bit of detail. In Shindokan, a Renshi must be a 6th Dan for consideration. The plug was my honor, as I fully honor and respect Sensei Poage, Peaceful Warrior Martial Arts, as well as his entire Student Body...especially you, Noah!!
A solid post, on your part, as well, Noah. Not every rank is equal; not even the slightest at all!! Knowledge...experience are the core of each and every rank!!
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No problem, and thank you! We put the white stripe on top for Godan, and the red stripe on top for Rokudan, for what that's worth, and we do Renshi at Godan, although both the belt and the Renshi title at Godan isn't all that common in the karate world. You're also not the first person to assume he was a Rokudan, although the last time that happened, he was still a Yondan
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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on the post.
