goshinman
Blue Belt
Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 253
Location: pasadena,ca
Styles: hakko densin ryu jujutsu, shuai chiao, catchwrestling, and some judo/sambo
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 Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 3:31 am Post subject: Matt Furey and Tony Cecchine |
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For those of you who are interested in catch or submission wrestling and don't know there has been an interesting if not silly rivalry between two guys who I think both have alot to offer in terms of skills and knowledge of catch wrestling. Matt Furey and Tony Cecchine are the two biggest names in modern catch wrestling period. It's a damn shame that these guy's have fallen out but we see this type of crap happen all the time in the Martial arts community where jealousy, envy, greed and ego come in and next thing you know guys are feuding. I don't know what the case is with these two but I know the the general consensus amongst peeps that use their material is that both are very talented guys who have alot to offer. Of course with every rivalry of this sort you have cheerleaders who choose who they want to side with and root him on and trash the other guy and this is no different. Tony's uys will say Matt furey is not legit blah blah blah and Matt Fureys boys will say Tony Cecchine is a habitual liar who knows nothing but show holds. WHATEVER, I just want to present for you both mens comments about the situation and be your own judge. First up are Some comments that Tony C. made about Matt Furey and his mentor Carl "the god of pro wrestling in japan" Gotch.
FCF: You previously teamed up with Matt Furey, another Catch wrestler, for some seminars, but now you have broken off your partnership. What exactly happened?
TC: Well, frankly, I go into a different direction than Matt Furey. What I look for is purity, and Matt Furey is looking to make a dollar. And the bottom line is I have a problem with this guy coming from the school of teach as you learn, as opposed to taking a few years and mastering the art, and then doing it. At the time that I knew him, I was doing Catch-As-Catch-Can for over twenty years, and he didn't have a clue what it was. Now he wanted right away to become the world's leading authority on it, and it just don't work that way. You have to take your time. You have to learn your craft. You have to pay your dues. He thought that because he had an amateur background, that he should immediately have credibility, but like I told him, look at Mark Coleman, look at Dan Severn, these guys are far, far, far more accomplished as an amateur wrestler than Furey will ever be but they're by no means submission wrestlers. I think the final straw was when the old-timers like Lou Thesz, Dick Cardinal, and Billy Wicks, guys like that, got behind me and supported me. They said, "hey, Tony's the real deal." And Matt didn't want that. He wanted to be known as the authority. So we split up and now he's tied up with Karl Gotch and he's trying to make his name, but unfortunately he's not doing it by any of his accomplishments. He's trying to make his name by bashing me and bashing everybody else. That's just not a good thing.
FCF: Karl Gotch is gaining a lot of notoriety because of Furey. What can you tell us about Karl Gotch?
TC: Well, I have spoken to Karl Gotch on several occasions. Karl is a very good wrestler, no question about it. The guy knew what he was doing. Unfortunately, what's happening now is Furey is trying to make him out like he's the only one who knew this stuff and so on and so forth. And that's so untrue. Karl was very popular as a coach in Japan, when he went over there. I don't know when it was, the late 60s, early 70s, or whatever it was. He started teaching the style he learned while he was in England. The sad part is that there are plenty of wrestlers, both here and abroad that were sensational. Guys like Billy Robinson from England, John Foley from England, Billy Joyce from England, guys that were technically superior to Karl. Of course, John and Billy Joyce are dead, Billy Robinson is still alive. It bothers me that guys like those don't get their full recognition. And of course there are American guys like I mentioned earlier in the interview that wrestled in the carnival circuit that had far, far, far more shoot match experience. In one summer, Dick Cardinal and guys like that had more shoot matches than Karl Gotch ever had in his career. When I talk to these old guys and they hear some of the stuff that is being said coming from the Furey-Gotch camp, they just shake their head and laugh. [They say] this is total *. So, what I'm worried about is that the truth will get distorted and for anyone who is really, truly interested in the true history of Catch-As-Catch-Can is never going to find it.
Ok now here is Matt Furey's response;
FCF: Okay, now let's get to the meat of the interview. First off, I don't want this to turn into a * contest or try to rekindle any animosity between you and Tony Cecchine. FCF wants to give you an opportunity to respond to Tony's comments, in a fair and equitable manner. I assume that you read the interview with Tony Cecchine in the last couple issues of FCF. What is your side of the story as far as why you stopped working together?
MF: I could go on and on with examples, but let's just put it this way. He misrepresented his credentials, his background and his experiences. Ninety percent of everything he told me, when I checked up on it, I found it to be flat-out false. I found his techniques to be show holds rather than real hooks. I found his stories about the history of Catch to be distorted so that he could make money. I found, as have other business people, that Tony will betray you in a second if it suits his purposes. He deliberately hurt and maimed people at seminars while demonstrating holds. This is something I have videotaped evidence to prove. His claims about his teachers are not true. He said his so-called teacher Stanley Radwan could tear quarters in half with his bare hands. This is something you can't even do with a pair of pliers in each hand. Now he claims that Lou Thesz is his teacher. Nothing could be further from the truth. In a nutshell, the guy has bastardized the art of Catch wrestling, teaching pro wrestling show holds that only work on lousy wrestlers or guys who just lie there. When I supposedly knew nothing about submission, Cecchine and I wrestled. There were two witnesses who saw this. We started on the ground and five minutes later he gave up and said, "That's the longest anyone has rolled with me in four years." That explains why today, he won't accept my challenge to a Catch wrestling rules match or even a demonstration of holds where the audience can judge who knows what better. He knows I'm training with the real deal and that is something he wants no part of because it will expose him. Inside of four minutes, a young Karl Gotch would have crippled me for life. There's a lot wrong with this guy saying he's a hooker, but he won't compete and prove it.
FCF: Cecchine also stated that you made a comment stating that you could not break any bones with submission holds and that was totally irresponsible?
MF: Let me tell you something. People get in an arm bar and say they got their arm broken, but they didn't get their arm broken. They got their elbow dislocated or they popped a capsule in their elbow. Somebody would say "Oh, I got my leg broken from a heel hook or an ankle lock, or whatever." But they didn't get their ankle broken…you follow what I'm saying? Now, I'm not saying that never, ever, in any circumstance, can anything not get broken. I will say this, I've never put on a submission hold and broken a bone. I've never seen anybody put it on somebody in practice or in a match and break a bone. I've talked with very, high level guys and they've said the same. I've talked with Karl Gotch and he flat out said that he's never broken a bone with a submission. You tear ligaments and you tear tendons. That's where the damage is. Now, let's say you could break a bone with a submission, his [Tony Cecchine] holds don't. On his video tape series, he has a couple of holds that he shows called a short arm scissors and a forearm lock. And he says that he can literally break the guy's forearm bone with these holds. Now if that's true, then why did two of my students, in San Jose, California, one was named Damon Ferguson and the other one was named Colin Naylor, beginners with not even a year of experience, lie there and allow him to put on a short arm scissors and a forearm lock on and they didn't even tap out. They just looked at him, laughed and said that it didn't even hurt. That's when Karl Gotch said that these are show holds, these aren't hooks. Now there are other people he will put those holds on and they'll tap out. But he's not breaking bones with them, I'll tell you that much. It's possible that a bone can be broken in certain situations, but every time that I've seen things broken, it is from a fall or it is from a strike. It somebody gets thrown, like Igor Zinoviev broke his collar bone or you'll see someone get kicked in the arm or in the leg and they'll get a bone broken from a Muay Thai kick. That's how bones get broken. In submission, you tear ligaments and you tear tendons. And all these people who said at the Arnold Classic, a guy got his arm broken in two places from a compression lock. I talked to John Saylor, they're supposed to send me the video tape of it. It's TWO MONTHS after, where's the video tape of it? If the guy got his arm broke with this lock, I WANT TO SEE IT! And if the guy truly got his arm broken with that, then I will amend what I said. I will say, "yeah, I saw a guy get his arm broken with this lock." Or if somebody got his leg broken with an ankle lock then let me see it on video. I can tell you that ligaments and tendons are what get hurt. And that's bad enough! If you get your ligaments in your knee torn up, completely severed, you're never going to be the same again. To me, a broken bone can be one of the best thing that can happen in some of these situations. To not be able to use your shoulder or your knee because your ligaments have been severed, that's pretty sad.
FCF: Cecchine also stated that Karl Gotch was a very good wrestler, but there are many other wrestlers that were better than Gotch. How do you respond to this comment?
MF: Well, it's funny. The first letter that Tony Cecchine sent me, when he sent his initial video tape, in the very final sentence of it, he says, "why is it that the Gracie's never challenged Karl Gotch or any of the other great hookers? Please call me sometime as I have some great Karl Gotch stories to tell you." That's his first letter to me in May of 1998. I still have it. Then he came to my boot camp in 1998 and everyone there can verify that all he did was stand around, holding court telling nothing but Karl Gotch stories and telling everyone that this guy is the greatest. He's the best hooker that he's ever known, etc., etc., etc.. And he talked about him as if they were close friends and had done things together and he trained with him and he knew him and he had spoken with him on the phone all these times. And I was fooled by that. He would say, "what I'm showing you is just the tip of the iceberg of Catch wrestling. There's so much more that's coming out later." And I saw what came out later, and it got worse. It didn't get better. So then I hooked up with Karl because I had all these questions. Here's a guy saying that he met John Pesek and that he learned the top wrist lock from him. We figured it out, the guy would have been 84 years old and it would have been the day that Pasek had died that he would have had to meet him. He said that he met him at a funeral in Cleveland. I found out that John Pasek never left his farm from Ravenna, Nebraska for the last thirty years of his life. And that the top wrist lock is the crowning jewel of Catch wrestling. Karl Gotch laughed and said that it's nothing but a set up for a shoulder lock. The old timers never intended for it to be a submission. He said that no good guy was ever going to get tapped out from a top wrist lock. So when I met Karl in April of 1999, I had all these questions. I didn't even tell him that Cecchine has these guys saying that this guy is not a Catch wrestler. I asked what is a Catch wrestler. He said, "you're a Catch wrestler." And he explained the evolution of it and how it was brought over to this country. [Gotch] just laid out a completely different picture. Well, what about Wigan and the Billy Riley Gym? I heard that you would just bring guys in and just beat them to death and if they came back…all of this stuff that I had, I'm sorry to say, been taking from Cecchine as fact and writing it on my web site as if it was truth. I felt ashamed of myself. How stupid could I have been to believe such an idiot, telling me all these lies. The good thing about Karl is like he always says, "talk is cheap, but money buys whiskey." Never has he ever told me something that he could not back up. He would say that Pesek wasn't even a top wrist lock guy. He was a toe hold guy. Karl can flip open a book and show ya. He can verify what he is saying. He's been a historian his whole life. He has a library of all these books. And I'd say, "well, I heard that Sambo got all it's leg locks from Catch wrestling," and he would go, "that's crazy! Sambo comes from more than 20 different forms of wrestling in Russia alone!" Then they added Aikido and Jiu-Jitsu and he got the Sambo books and he showed me. Then I thought, hell, what have I been hearing? So I reported what he told me and boy, did that stir up a hornet's nest. One of the things that Karl says, "only a fool hates the truth, but the world is full of fools." [laughs] Well, what I found out is when you tell people the truth, most people don't like it. I mean, in this interview I'm being more frank than I've ever been, but if I told everything I knew, I think it would be too much.
That folks is it in a nut shell. You can see the interview with Tony C in it's fullness here http://www.onzuka.com/interviews/Cecchine-Tony
And you can see the full Matt Furey interview here at http://www.onzuka.com/interviews/Furey-Matt6-14-00.html
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