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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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 Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:53 pm Post subject: You Want It...Then EARN IT!! |
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Just going through the motions isn't good enough in a testing cycle. You have to show me that you want it and that you can perform the techniques strongly under pressure.
If the standard is to remain, I've no choice!!
Parents and the like sure do like to impose themselves where it's not appreciated, nor wanted. They'll threaten to take their kids out if their kids don't pass any given testing cycle.
NOT IN MY DOJO, YOU DON'T!!
Should the threat be carried out, I'd gladly hold the door open for them. I'd lose no sleep whatsoever...I'd survive!!
The testing cycle is that measuring ground that we all have endured gratefully, and without dull reservations. Those of us who've endured any testing cycle, pass or fail, have given of themselves without reservation, because that is what's to be expected: DEDICATION!!
In there's no integrity in the student, then there can be no honor in the student, even more so.
IF YOU WANT IT; THEN EARN IT!!
It'll take much more than having perfect attendance! It'll take much more than paying tuition on time! It'll take much more than threatening! It'll take much more than attending every seminar! It'll take much more than always having a clean and pressed gi! It'll take much more than having me laugh at all of your jokes! It'll take more than attending class everyday and night! It'll take much more than winning all of the hardware at every tournament in the world!
It'll take you EARNING IT!!
I don't enjoy failing students, but I will if it's warranted for cause. I recently visited a Shindokan dojo at their request to administer their testing cycle. I failed six for basically being lazy in the testing cycle...
Have any of you had to do the same?
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:08 am Post subject: |
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You make good points, Bob. Laziness should not be tolerated. A lack of skill is something I can deal with, as long as the student is giving all of his or her effort in the attempt.
I haven't seen anyone that I really thought was slacking in a testing. I guess I've been lucky that way. Nor have I had any issues with parents, either. Most of the parents I've dealt with are the type that have their kids in class so they can learn to work hard for things and to train a work ethic.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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The Pred
Green Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 385
Styles: Goju Ryu
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:06 am Post subject: Re: You Want It...Then EARN IT!! |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
Just going through the motions isn't good enough in a testing cycle. You have to show me that you want it and that you can perform the techniques strongly under pressure.
If the standard is to remain, I've no choice!!
Parents and the like sure do like to impose themselves where it's not appreciated, nor wanted. They'll threaten to take their kids out if their kids don't pass any given testing cycle.
NOT IN MY DOJO, YOU DON'T!!
Should the threat be carried out, I'd gladly hold the door open for them. I'd lose no sleep whatsoever...I'd survive!!
The testing cycle is that measuring ground that we all have endured gratefully, and without dull reservations. Those of us who've endured any testing cycle, pass or fail, have given of themselves without reservation, because that is what's to be expected: DEDICATION!!
In there's no integrity in the student, then there can be no honor in the student, even more so.
IF YOU WANT IT; THEN EARN IT!!
It'll take much more than having perfect attendance! It'll take much more than paying tuition on time! It'll take much more than threatening! It'll take much more than attending every seminar! It'll take much more than always having a clean and pressed gi! It'll take much more than having me laugh at all of your jokes! It'll take more than attending class everyday and night! It'll take much more than winning all of the hardware at every tournament in the world!
It'll take you EARNING IT!!
I don't enjoy failing students, but I will if it's warranted for cause. I recently visited a Shindokan dojo at their request to administer their testing cycle. I failed six for basically being lazy in the testing cycle...
Have any of you had to do the same?
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Nothing wrong with having standards. Question, would your dojo be able to operate if the majority of parents did take their kids for you failing them. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: You Want It...Then EARN IT!! |
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| The Pred wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
Just going through the motions isn't good enough in a testing cycle. You have to show me that you want it and that you can perform the techniques strongly under pressure.
If the standard is to remain, I've no choice!!
Parents and the like sure do like to impose themselves where it's not appreciated, nor wanted. They'll threaten to take their kids out if their kids don't pass any given testing cycle.
NOT IN MY DOJO, YOU DON'T!!
Should the threat be carried out, I'd gladly hold the door open for them. I'd lose no sleep whatsoever...I'd survive!!
The testing cycle is that measuring ground that we all have endured gratefully, and without dull reservations. Those of us who've endured any testing cycle, pass or fail, have given of themselves without reservation, because that is what's to be expected: DEDICATION!!
In there's no integrity in the student, then there can be no honor in the student, even more so.
IF YOU WANT IT; THEN EARN IT!!
It'll take much more than having perfect attendance! It'll take much more than paying tuition on time! It'll take much more than threatening! It'll take much more than attending every seminar! It'll take much more than always having a clean and pressed gi! It'll take much more than having me laugh at all of your jokes! It'll take more than attending class everyday and night! It'll take much more than winning all of the hardware at every tournament in the world!
It'll take you EARNING IT!!
I don't enjoy failing students, but I will if it's warranted for cause. I recently visited a Shindokan dojo at their request to administer their testing cycle. I failed six for basically being lazy in the testing cycle...
Have any of you had to do the same?
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Nothing wrong with having standards. Question, would your dojo be able to operate if the majority of parents did take their kids for you failing them. |
To the bold type...
Yes, it would, and so would the Hombu. Why/How? My integrity, as well as the integrity of Shindokan will not tolerate any manipulative ploys!! After all, those students who've been part of the student body for at least 3 months already know for a fact how I/Hombu won't sell my/their integrity, and if we're threatened in any regards...THERE'S THE DOOR...LEAVE NOW; TO NEVER RETURN!!
I've never lost any sleep before over things like this, and I'm sure I'll never lose any sleep in the future, either. The fact of life is that...students come and go; it's their choice either way. I've much more important things to worry about than that!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Earning it? What a radical concept. You should go around the world teaching seminars. All jokes aside...
"Technique before strength, spirit before technique."
- Kaicho Tadashi Nakamura
I'm sure it's been said before in different words, or perhaps the same words.
Your post spoke like a true educator. Kids today feel more entitled than ever before IMO. They showed up, their parents paid for it, they're entitled to it. Let me guess... They did everything you asked, and it still wasn't enough. Here's another shot in the dark... Did a single parent, let alone a single student, ask what they need to do to improve and/or pass next time? Or did they just blame everyone else?
I tell my students the following the first day of the year, every year:
'If you do everything I ask you to do, and do it to the best of your ability, you won't fail; you'll do very well; it'll actually be easy. If you don't do what I ask, how I ask you to do it, you'll struggle. If you do everything you're asked, and don't get a good grade, I've failed you (I don't mean grades). If you don't do what I ask, and get a bad grade, it's on you. Your grade is your grade, not mine; own it. I've already passed this class.'
Some might take that as being too harsh. I guess the truth isn't always sensitive.
Teaching at a private school, I hear parents say they'll pull their kids out all the time (haven't heard it about me, though). Pretty much always an empty threat.
One question I can't help but ask... I'm assuming you're not these students' teacher, but were testing them. If they didn't put forth much effort when the head of the organization was testing them, how much effort are they putting forth when their CI is testing them? Kind of like stepping up your efforts when your boss's boss is evaluating your job performance. |
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Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 676
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Well obviously I don't see anything wrong with making students earn it, but I must say with my last your business being at the rec center and only kids I have to say I'm lucky like Bushido_man and I haven't really had any lazy students for testing, I come into testing and I am very high energy from the beginning and they know what is expected of them so in that way I suppose I am successful.
We'll see if anything changes when my second location opens in April. I have almost failed a few students they could not perform the techniques required, however I gave them another opportunity off to the side and they performed perfectly or as close to that as can be. The issue was the pressure and I can't imagine failing a low ranking student for not being able to handle pressure as a child. Fortunately I have not had to ever fail anybody.
Jr137 I really like the way this is put... "Technique before strength, spirit before technique."
- Kaicho Tadashi Nakamura
I wonder if it is rude if I put this on my wall in my dojo? I have two others that I already planned on putting up, but I really like this one. I would gladly put the name under the quote, do you know if it is spelled accurately
_________________
Hustle and hard work are a substitute for talent! |
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Lupin1
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1637
Location: Naples, FL
Styles: Isshinryu
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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We don't do tests except for Shodan (sometimes, as my recent story tells...), we just promote people when we think they're ready, but we like to tell them "every class is a test" and we've certainly put off promoting kids due to attitude and slacking.
We had one kid who was half way through the next belt's material and who had been ready to move up for two or three months, but we held him back because he was slacking and coming up with excuses to leave every class early (we're at a Boys and Girls Club, so he just went downstairs and played in the club). There are also two girl cousins who started the same day and have been promoted the same day straight up through the ranks, but we purposely gave one girl her brown belt the class before her cousin because the cousin just wasn't putting forth the same effort and we needed her to step up her game.
And, to be perfectly honest, I probably could have had my Shodan last Spring if I had put forth the effort, but I was in a rut and it took me until recently to snap out of it and so I was a 1st kyu for over a year because of it. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| JR 137 wrote: |
Earning it? What a radical concept. You should go around the world teaching seminars. All jokes aside...
"Technique before strength, spirit before technique."
- Kaicho Tadashi Nakamura
I'm sure it's been said before in different words, or perhaps the same words.
Your post spoke like a true educator. Kids today feel more entitled than ever before IMO. They showed up, their parents paid for it, they're entitled to it. Let me guess... They did everything you asked, and it still wasn't enough. Here's another shot in the dark... Did a single parent, let alone a single student, ask what they need to do to improve and/or pass next time? Or did they just blame everyone else?
I tell my students the following the first day of the year, every year:
'If you do everything I ask you to do, and do it to the best of your ability, you won't fail; you'll do very well; it'll actually be easy. If you don't do what I ask, how I ask you to do it, you'll struggle. If you do everything you're asked, and don't get a good grade, I've failed you (I don't mean grades). If you don't do what I ask, and get a bad grade, it's on you. Your grade is your grade, not mine; own it. I've already passed this class.'
Some might take that as being too harsh. I guess the truth isn't always sensitive.
Teaching at a private school, I hear parents say they'll pull their kids out all the time (haven't heard it about me, though). Pretty much always an empty threat.
One question I can't help but ask... I'm assuming you're not these students' teacher, but were testing them. If they didn't put forth much effort when the head of the organization was testing them, how much effort are they putting forth when their CI is testing them? Kind of like stepping up your efforts when your boss's boss is evaluating your job performance. |
To the bold type above...
It's true, I'm not those failed students Sensei; I'm just the Kaicho of the SKKA, and I was only administrating their testing cycle, which is held once every 3 months.
I spoke with their CI and explained to him as to why I failed his students, and he, with a heavy heart, agreed to my decision, and was also embarrassed at their laziness. Cold truth about that testing cycle, I stopped the test TWICE to remind them of the Hombu's expectations, and if they'd rather be somewhere else, I'd understand. They remained, yet continued to remain lazy, nonetheless.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Luther unleashed wrote: |
Well obviously I don't see anything wrong with making students earn it, but I must say with my last your business being at the rec center and only kids I have to say I'm lucky like Bushido_man and I haven't really had any lazy students for testing, I come into testing and I am very high energy from the beginning and they know what is expected of them so in that way I suppose I am successful.
We'll see if anything changes when my second location opens in April. I have almost failed a few students they could not perform the techniques required, however I gave them another opportunity off to the side and they performed perfectly or as close to that as can be. The issue was the pressure and I can't imagine failing a low ranking student for not being able to handle pressure as a child. Fortunately I have not had to ever fail anybody.
Jr137 I really like the way this is put... "Technique before strength, spirit before technique."
- Kaicho Tadashi Nakamura
I wonder if it is rude if I put this on my wall in my dojo? I have two others that I already planned on putting up, but I really like this one. I would gladly put the name under the quote, do you know if it is spelled accurately |
I don't think it would be rude. I guess you could email him through Seido if you're not sure. His name is spelled correctly. He's the head/founder of Seido, which I'm his indirect student (my CI is his direct student).
Also, Kaicho is a title, not his name. Typically translated/used as Chairman, president, head of the organization, etc. |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:59 am Post subject: |
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Too many posts to quote and chop up...
You warned them... Twice. You didn't fail the students. They chose to fail. You told them what needed to be done... twice... and they continued to not make the necessary change. Sounds like either they didn't care if they passed or failed, or they thought you were bluffing.
As for the parents, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. |
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on the post.
