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DarthPenguin
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 723
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Additionally, surely (assuming the grading is assessed by an independent individual with appropriate standards) never failing a grading is a good thing? That shows that the candidate was always presented when ready and performed well. That is a good thing in my book!

Lots of students failing a lot is a bad thing in my book - shouldn't be putting lots of people forward for things that they aren't ready for.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30001
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarthPenguin wrote:
Additionally, surely (assuming the grading is assessed by an independent individual with appropriate standards) never failing a grading is a good thing? That shows that the candidate was always presented when ready and performed well. That is a good thing in my book!

Lots of students failing a lot is a bad thing in my book - shouldn't be putting lots of people forward for things that they aren't ready for.
I agree. As an instructor myself, I would find a point of pride in the fact that my students would always be ready for testing.

It has seemed, in my experience at this school, that the CI has always had the final say on testings held at the school. At the HQ school, it's a little different.

I knew of another incident, quite a few years ago, in which a young student went to test either for 1st dan, or as a 1st dan, at the HQ school. The CI wasn't happy with the attitude this kid was having at the school, or his effort levels, or something of that nature. At any rate, after being back from the testing, when others got their promotions, this kid didn't get his. CI told him he didn't pass. Well, the dad was a bit miffed by this, and contacted the HQ school to find out the results there; turns out the GM had passed the kid, as did the rest of the testing panel, I guess. Needless to say, the dad was not happy, and shortly thereafter, the kid quit.

I don't know if that was an instance of "when I get certain rank, I'm done," and that was the CI's issue, or if there were severe attitude problems at class and that was the reason for failing the kid. Those are issues the GM and the rest of the testing panel probably weren't aware of. But, the CI should have either shared that information with the testing panel, or should not have allowed the student to test at all, and spoke with the parents about what the issues were.
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DarthPenguin
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 723
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah not passing on that a student had passed when they didn't is also pretty sketchy. I can think of several issues with that tbh. If the student is an active competitor and there are below black belt competitions then someone could get hurt by an individual that shouldn't ever be there.

It also shows a lack of respect for the GM and the testing panel in my view. I would have expected the CI to be formally censured for that personally.

Seems straightforward to me tbh, if the CI was concerned about the attitude you either just don't let them grade (and tell them why) or have a stern talking to with them about their attitude. Attitude issues can lead to serious consequences and need actioned.

Of course these things are often easier said than done. From personal experience i recall when i was training in a striking style in the past ,and had started to grapple alongside it at a separate club, that i was told by my instructor (who was also the deputy GM) that the GM was planning to ban me for cross training at my upcoming dan grading. He was going to let me pay the 100+ fee etc and then call me to the front and ban me. Needless to say i withdrew from it (though i continued to train with the deputy GM for a while longer as i really rated him). Left quite soon afterwards though. What was particularly galling was i had openly said i am looking to do this as you don't cover this skillset and was told it was fine!
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30001
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That whole not being allowed to cross train malarkey is infuriating. The idea of waiting to call a student up to test and then ban them in front of everyone, after taking the fees, is a new level of low.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16247
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both my Soke and Dai-Soke were dead set against us from cross training for their reasons. Many of us fought against their orders, however, persistence paid off and we were allowed to. Biggest thing was that I was the first one to take the plunge in the arena of cross training by my taking TKD against their wishes, of which I knew that it was my choice and not theirs. Change is inevitable even if that change is a forced one.

Quote:
The idea of waiting to call a student up to test and then ban them in front of everyone, after taking the fees, is a new level of low.

Right there, is what I always say...Not all black belts can teach, nor should they. That CI has NO integrity whatsoever.



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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2349
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarthPenguin wrote:
Additionally, surely (assuming the grading is assessed by an independent individual with appropriate standards) never failing a grading is a good thing? That shows that the candidate was always presented when ready and performed well. That is a good thing in my book!

Lots of students failing a lot is a bad thing in my book - shouldn't be putting lots of people forward for things that they aren't ready for.


My sensei has always said that Gradings aren't just a reflection of the student but of the instructors also.

So for me, if an instructor fails a student because they haven't failed before it just looks bad on them (the instructor).
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30001
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nidan Melbourne wrote:
DarthPenguin wrote:
Additionally, surely (assuming the grading is assessed by an independent individual with appropriate standards) never failing a grading is a good thing? That shows that the candidate was always presented when ready and performed well. That is a good thing in my book!

Lots of students failing a lot is a bad thing in my book - shouldn't be putting lots of people forward for things that they aren't ready for.


My sensei has always said that Gradings aren't just a reflection of the student but of the instructors also.

So for me, if an instructor fails a student because they haven't failed before it just looks bad on them (the instructor).
I feel the same way, too. As an instructor, if I don't have a student ready, and I let them test, then that's on me as much as on them.
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DarthPenguin
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 723
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Both my Soke and Dai-Soke were dead set against us from cross training for their reasons. Many of us fought against their orders, however, persistence paid off and we were allowed to. Biggest thing was that I was the first one to take the plunge in the arena of cross training by my taking TKD against their wishes, of which I knew that it was my choice and not theirs. Change is inevitable even if that change is a forced one.

Quote:
The idea of waiting to call a student up to test and then ban them in front of everyone, after taking the fees, is a new level of low.

Right there, is what I always say...Not all black belts can teach, nor should they. That CI has NO integrity whatsoever.




Yep that is what i thought. Not long after i left a lot of other people did too and his style has gradually begun to die, only a few clubs left now.

Is a shame. He was an excellent martial artist (though not as good as he liked to pretend he was - i have met others as capable, though not many!) and technically a good teacher. Unfortunately he could also be rather difficult! Won't go into all the details but he was far eastern asian and struggled to integrate that with Scottish cultural mores sometimes - he was used to a certain level of deference and nigh on servitude when not at training which was always jarring. He deserved respect but that doesn't equate to him being able to demand his students do things for him in his personal life!
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