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bushido_man96
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Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:54 pm    Post subject: BJJ/Wrestling Video, Comparison and Contrast Reply with quote

This video popped up in my feed the other day, and it drew my attention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRrJGlWujkg

First off, this isn't your typical "versus" YouTube video. I thought it was very tactfully done, with each stylist getting to display their skills.

I thought this was a great video, and as I watched it, I noticed a couple of things:

1. The wrestler's takedown game was very, very good. He was able to take the BJJer down with relative ease, and he didn't have much defense against it. The wrestler was also able to use his takedowns to establish a dominant position. The BJJer did not show any effective takedown technique, that I could see.

2. The BJJer was very good at getting into guard after being taken down. It would afford him the opportunity to begin mounting a defense if the fight continued.

3. When the grappling continued, the BJJer did lock up at least a few good submissions; the heel hook, and I think he had a choke that would gone his way. The wrestler was pretty good at maintaining good position, but other than working for a pin, didn't show much of a submission game (which I kind of expected).

So, some other notes:

Aside from the two subs put on the wrestler in the continuous grappling portion of the video, I thought the wrestler did an overall decent job of defending subs.

The weight difference was an important factor, I think. Also, the wrestler's athleticism was a huge advantage to him. I think if you put them both in gis, things slow down a bit, and favors the BJJer a bit more.

I'm just guessing here, but I'm assuming the wrestler, who I think they said was a high school senior with prospects of a collegiate wrestling career, has probably been wrestling since he was 6 or earlier, giving him a lot of years of experience. The BJJer appeared to be in good shape, but he didn't appear to be DI athlete material. For all that, the BJJer performed very well.

I liked how they talked and evaluated things after they were done. Both showed a great martial attitude towards working together, and admitted that each one's style had strengths that the other could benefit from.

I'm anxious to hear what others think!
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shows just what a effective takedown can birth. Takedowns introduce other effective possibilities. However, without having an effective arsenal at owns disposal, the takedown can end up being so one-dimensional.

Takedown! Now what to do once on the ground?!? There's where the meat-and-potatoes of ones ground work knowledge and experience unwinds. What I saw in the aforementioned video, and thank you for sharing it with us, Brian, was not only an effective takedown, but I equally saw an effective way to receive the takedown. In any technique, there's how to attack and how to receive. Allowing someone to attack you on purpose requires quite a lot maturity to receive effectively.

Both complimented each other, and the wrestlers ability to not suck wind is a sign of his great cardio.

I'd score the wrestler the winner, if scoring was used. Knew the wrestler was going to do quite well seeing he's a state champ. Would like to see him against a BJJ Black Belt.



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pittbullJudoka
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Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 1169
Location: Tennessee
Styles: Ryu Kyu Kempo,Wrestling,Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll agree the wrestlers takedowns were far superior to the BJJ guy's. One thing I'd like to add to that aspect but the wrestler was wearing shoes which gave him an advantage on footing and drive on the takedowns. Now mind you I'm not trying to discredit his takedowns but if you've ever wrestled with and without shoes you'll notice a sizable difference in you ability to shoot and then drive on said takedown. But this also plays a disadvantage when they start the jui jitsu portion of the match I think this was partially lead to him getting caught in the heel hook because the shoes gave the BJJ guy an advantage on keeping the leg.
One thing I noticed about the wrestler was when put on his back his natural instinct is to get his back off the mat.
A wrestlers top pressure is usually superior to they skill level in BJJ. the BJJ guy diff a good job of not subcoming to said pressure and that has come with his skill and experience on the mats.
Like stated in the video if strikes were involved the wrestler would've been dominating. both parties done a good job with their given skill set. You could tell cardio was also a major factor. Also the weight difference probably played a small roll but not much.
I would like to see the wrestler good against someone his same weight, and in better cardio shape and had been doing BJJ as long as he's been wrestling or a person that competes in BJJ a lot. The BJJ guy could be like me and only train a day or two a week and never competes.
But all in all a good comparison of styles and why cross training is important. But this is just my 2 cents.
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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:

Takedown! Now what to do once on the ground?!? There's where the meat-and-potatoes of ones ground work knowledge and experience unwinds. What I saw in the aforementioned video, and thank you for sharing it with us, Brian, was not only an effective takedown, but I equally saw an effective way to receive the takedown. In any technique, there's how to attack and how to receive. Allowing someone to attack you on purpose requires quite a lot maturity to receive effectively.


That's a spot-on observation there, Bob, that not only were the Wrestler's takedowns so good, but the BJJer received them well, making sure he was in a good position upon being taken down. I think he could definitely work on some sprawls and other takedown defenses to help with that, too.

Quote:
I'd score the wrestler the winner, if scoring was used. Knew the wrestler was going to do quite well seeing he's a state champ. Would like to see him against a BJJ Black Belt.


I understand why you'd score the Wrestler the winner; he was very good at getting into a dominant position. I'd be interested in seeing some continuation, though, and if strikes were applied, I'd really like to see how the BJJer started defending the strikes, and if that would help provide him openings to advance his position.
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
sensei8 wrote:

Takedown! Now what to do once on the ground?!? There's where the meat-and-potatoes of ones ground work knowledge and experience unwinds. What I saw in the aforementioned video, and thank you for sharing it with us, Brian, was not only an effective takedown, but I equally saw an effective way to receive the takedown. In any technique, there's how to attack and how to receive. Allowing someone to attack you on purpose requires quite a lot maturity to receive effectively.


That's a spot-on observation there, Bob, that not only were the Wrestler's takedowns so good, but the BJJer received them well, making sure he was in a good position upon being taken down. I think he could definitely work on some sprawls and other takedown defenses to help with that, too.

Quote:
I'd score the wrestler the winner, if scoring was used. Knew the wrestler was going to do quite well seeing he's a state champ. Would like to see him against a BJJ Black Belt.


I understand why you'd score the Wrestler the winner; he was very good at getting into a dominant position. I'd be interested in seeing some continuation, though, and if strikes were applied, I'd really like to see how the BJJer started defending the strikes, and if that would help provide him openings to advance his position.

Given the experience of the BJJer I'm not surprised how well he received the wrestler; the BJJer had no choice in that regard considering the wrestlers resume. I agree on the sprawls and other takedown defenses needing to be seriously trained on.

To your second point, is why I said that I'd love to see that wrestler against a BJJ Black Belt because that BB would do just what you're suggesting, and then some.



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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pittbullJudoka wrote:
I'll agree the wrestlers takedowns were far superior to the BJJ guy's. One thing I'd like to add to that aspect but the wrestler was wearing shoes which gave him an advantage on footing and drive on the takedowns. Now mind you I'm not trying to discredit his takedowns but if you've ever wrestled with and without shoes you'll notice a sizable difference in you ability to shoot and then drive on said takedown. But this also plays a disadvantage when they start the jui jitsu portion of the match I think this was partially lead to him getting caught in the heel hook because the shoes gave the BJJ guy an advantage on keeping the leg.


This is a great observation, and not one that I thought about at first glance. You make a good point here.

Quote:
One thing I noticed about the wrestler was when put on his back his natural instinct is to get his back off the mat.


I agree. I always referred to this as the "pin mentality." Once a Wrestler gets over this, I think their BJJ level can improve drastically.

Quote:
A wrestlers top pressure is usually superior to they skill level in BJJ. the BJJ guy diff a good job of not subcoming to said pressure and that has come with his skill and experience on the mats.


Also a good observation. The BJJer didn't really panic, and you could tell he was pretty comfortable being on his back.
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