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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14268
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject: Can I Roll BJJ Wise!! Reply with quote

I've posted here, and not in the "Health, Training and Fitness" forum because my question is not that type of question.

My lower back hasn't improved; it's worsened!!

Shindokan is one of the very few Karate styles that incorporates grappling, but not in a passing notion, but a full on bull in a china closet notion. I'm sincere when I say that Shindokan is very comfortable on the floor...literally on the floor...on our backs...or whatever the position dictates.

My doctor says that my days on the floor, grappling wise, are behind me. My lower back is toast. Just the littlest wrong move, and my back goes out, and with my back going out, the accompanying pain is quite severe; so severe, I literally can't move, and if I try to move, the pain is unbearable. Last episode I have, I was bedridden for 3 days, in which after I could move, I was slow and deliberate.

This is life as it stands. I need a ESI procedure, but my Cardiologist forbids that procedure because I'll have to come off my Eliquis blood thinner for 3 days prior to the procedure. The ESI is where the doctors give your disc, in your back, 3 shots of steroids to reduce inflammation, hence, relieving pressure on the pinched nerves; the needle is quite long. I hate needles!!

I know Shindokan isn't the complete picture when it comes to grappling, which MA is?! But I believe in BJJ wholeheartedly in what it brings to the table, and BJJ would add so much to our brand of grappling. I'll need to learn BJJ, and not in a passing notion either, but, join a BJJ school.

SO...can I roll BJJ wise??



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Tempest
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 420
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm.
I'm not gonna lie. Lower back issues make it tougher.

That said, the point of Jiujitsu is to move your body in a way that is relatively natural until you get good enough that what you consider natural, others would consider quite athletic.

Understand that rolling is an activity that can be done with varying intensities.

Are you going to be able to what we call "go hard" with the brown and black belt competition teams? No. Those days are gone.
BUT can you still spar to SOME degree of intensity? I would say as long as you can get on the mat, and are comfortable communicating with your training partners, and are training with people who are willing to take care of you as a training partner, you should be able to.
BUT, please don't ignore your doctors advice. He is a medical professional. More importantly, he is familiar with your body and situation. If you decide to grapple against medical advice, for example, a lot of clubs insurance won't cover you if something DOES happen.
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tallgeese
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6851
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd agree. The low back will be something you have to work around. It does not mean you can't do it.

I'd try to find a school that's less competition focused or go to classes that aren't geared to that. 40 plus classes are getting more common.

There's a segment of the BJJ population that really focuses on flow roll and very little hard rolling. Try to find a place with that kind of vibe. Also, as you get into the point where you're rolling during open mat, don't be afraid to just tell people you're going light or flowing. If you respect it, they should as well. If they don't, don't roll with that person again. By the time you're cut loose to open mat you'll know who to avoid.

Give it a shot and keep us posted!
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27636
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a secondary note, consider taking steps to strengthen your lower back. If you don't make it stronger, then it will continue to go out of place when you want to do something, whether its rolling, or trying to walk the dog.
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're going to need to be VERY careful, to state the obvious...

To state the less obvious, live in half guard. Nothing else exists as far as you're concerned. This will save your back as you wont be getting stacked. Be sure to convey your ailment to your coach wherever you train. You might have to limit your training partners to higher belts until you (and they) figure out how you're going to move on a regular basis.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14268
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What will their (Instructors) expectations be of me??

While I'd be "new" to BJJ, from a student aspect, I'm not "new" on the floor, nor am I not "new" within grappling per Shindokan's brand of grappling, and while I'm not ranked in BJJ, whatsoever, yet I'm ranked in Shindokan.

This isn't my first rodeo on the floor as both an Instructor and Student and Administrator.



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tallgeese
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6851
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
What will their (Instructors) expectations be of me??

While I'd be "new" to BJJ, from a student aspect, I'm not "new" on the floor, nor am I not "new" within grappling per Shindokan's brand of grappling, and while I'm not ranked in BJJ, whatsoever, yet I'm ranked in Shindokan.

This isn't my first rodeo on the floor as both an Instructor and Student and Administrator.




It's a pretty laid back environment. Most are very open to what new students bring to the table. The biggest thing to keep in mind is to just embrace the different training methodology.
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
What will their (Instructors) expectations be of me??

While I'd be "new" to BJJ, from a student aspect, I'm not "new" on the floor, nor am I not "new" within grappling per Shindokan's brand of grappling, and while I'm not ranked in BJJ, whatsoever, yet I'm ranked in Shindokan.

This isn't my first rodeo on the floor as both an Instructor and Student and Administrator.




You must know everything and be perfect. You are
Not expected to tap- ever- for any reason. This includes when the instructor is demonstrating on you.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14268
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tallgeese wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
What will their (Instructors) expectations be of me??

While I'd be "new" to BJJ, from a student aspect, I'm not "new" on the floor, nor am I not "new" within grappling per Shindokan's brand of grappling, and while I'm not ranked in BJJ, whatsoever, yet I'm ranked in Shindokan.

This isn't my first rodeo on the floor as both an Instructor and Student and Administrator.




It's a pretty laid back environment. Most are very open to what new students bring to the table. The biggest thing to keep in mind is to just embrace the different training methodology.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I've crossed trained with many, many BJJ practitioners over my entire MA career in more of an exchange of methodologies and ideologies, but nonetheless, oftentimes, I was treated differently right off the bat due to my rank, whether it be good or bad or indifferent; made me quite uncomfortable.



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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

During my 1 exposure to BJJ, I noticed the lack of formality. There was little to no opening or closing "ceremony". The word Sensei was not used, even though you could tell by watching who was in charge. To this day I am not sure what title is given to the teacher.

Despite the lack of formality, it was clear to see the respect and "chain of command". I enjoyed it. The quality of instruction was great. If I had the time and facilities close I would take BJJ as well.
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