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stonecrusher69
Red Belt
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 807
Location: New Jersey
Styles: MCM WING CHUN
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 Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: Chi sao a personal perspective |
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The Keys to high level Chi Sao- A personal perspective.
What you see a lot today with people who Practice Chi Sao is this over emphasis being placed on forward pressure and trying to control the center line alone, used with pushing and pulling tactics. The pushing and pulling is used in conjunction to disrupt or break the opponent’s structure. While this is a great skill to have and to train, it can leave one’s Chi Sao skills underdeveloped in the long run.
With this continued type of focus in your Chi Sao, it will usually be who is the bigger, stronger or faster person, not sensitivity or skills deciding the outcome.
If in my opinion one wants to improve and move on to higher levels in their Chi Sao they must let go of the idea of trying to control center line or breaking structure. This way of doing Chi Sao is limited and creates what I call a “power struggle to control the center”. Since only one person can occupy the center and as long as two people are trying to control that center this can and often does create a force on force conflict where both parties struggle for dominance for the center.
When this happens both parties tend to use brute force or size to over power their training partner. This type of Chi Sao has very little to do with sensitivity training or skill building. In my opinion, this has very little to with Chi Sao at all.
So how does one let go and train higher levels in their Chi Sao?
There are several components both structurally and tactically. First, do not use forward pressure to over power your opponent, instead use forward intent. Use your mind to guide your intent and your sensitivity to guide your actions. Seek the center but don’t try to control it physically by force. If your opponent wants to control the center, let him. Let him believe he is in control when in fact he’s not. He can only win if you fight with him. When he strikes at that moment you can hit him or retake the center. Also, when the opponent makes a mistake, capture the center but don’t force it. Allow him to make the mistake. This way it will avoid this force on force power struggle which you’re trying not to do. Structurally, one must relax all the joints in the body, especially the shoulder. Do not lock any joints weather for the use of structure or power generation. Every part must be moving and flowing. Like water running down stream, when it hits an obstruction it simply flows around it. It does not force itself on the rock but yields to it. Use this as a guideline to improve on your chi sao.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/sifumcilwrath
"When the student is ready the master will appear" |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Chi sao a personal perspective |
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| stonecrusher69 wrote: |
The Keys to high level Chi Sao- A personal perspective.
What you see a lot today with people who Practice Chi Sao is this over emphasis being placed on forward pressure and trying to control the center line alone, used with pushing and pulling tactics. The pushing and pulling is used in conjunction to disrupt or break the opponent’s structure. While this is a great skill to have and to train, it can leave one’s Chi Sao skills underdeveloped in the long run.
With this continued type of focus in your Chi Sao, it will usually be who is the bigger, stronger or faster person, not sensitivity or skills deciding the outcome.
If in my opinion one wants to improve and move on to higher levels in their Chi Sao they must let go of the idea of trying to control center line or breaking structure. This way of doing Chi Sao is limited and creates what I call a “power struggle to control the center”. Since only one person can occupy the center and as long as two people are trying to control that center this can and often does create a force on force conflict where both parties struggle for dominance for the center.
When this happens both parties tend to use brute force or size to over power their training partner. This type of Chi Sao has very little to do with sensitivity training or skill building. In my opinion, this has very little to with Chi Sao at all.
So how does one let go and train higher levels in their Chi Sao?
There are several components both structurally and tactically. First, do not use forward pressure to over power your opponent, instead use forward intent. Use your mind to guide your intent and your sensitivity to guide your actions. Seek the center but don’t try to control it physically by force. If your opponent wants to control the center, let him. Let him believe he is in control when in fact he’s not. He can only win if you fight with him. When he strikes at that moment you can hit him or retake the center. Also, when the opponent makes a mistake, capture the center but don’t force it. Allow him to make the mistake. This way it will avoid this force on force power struggle which you’re trying not to do. Structurally, one must relax all the joints in the body, especially the shoulder. Do not lock any joints weather for the use of structure or power generation. Every part must be moving and flowing. Like water running down stream, when it hits an obstruction it simply flows around it. It does not force itself on the rock but yields to it. Use this as a guideline to improve on your chi sao. |
Solid and powerful post!!
That center line, imho, is moving constantly, and with that, to give and to take help control that center line. Also, imho, an over emphasis on the center line can be blinding to students. That center line is important, not to be mistaken, however, that center line is not the end of all things; just one element amongst many others.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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stonecrusher69
Red Belt
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 807
Location: New Jersey
Styles: MCM WING CHUN
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: Chi sao a personal perspective |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| stonecrusher69 wrote: |
The Keys to high level Chi Sao- A personal perspective.
What you see a lot today with people who Practice Chi Sao is this over emphasis being placed on forward pressure and trying to control the center line alone, used with pushing and pulling tactics. The pushing and pulling is used in conjunction to disrupt or break the opponent’s structure. While this is a great skill to have and to train, it can leave one’s Chi Sao skills underdeveloped in the long run.
With this continued type of focus in your Chi Sao, it will usually be who is the bigger, stronger or faster person, not sensitivity or skills deciding the outcome.
If in my opinion one wants to improve and move on to higher levels in their Chi Sao they must let go of the idea of trying to control center line or breaking structure. This way of doing Chi Sao is limited and creates what I call a “power struggle to control the center”. Since only one person can occupy the center and as long as two people are trying to control that center this can and often does create a force on force conflict where both parties struggle for dominance for the center.
When this happens both parties tend to use brute force or size to over power their training partner. This type of Chi Sao has very little to do with sensitivity training or skill building. In my opinion, this has very little to with Chi Sao at all.
So how does one let go and train higher levels in their Chi Sao?
There are several components both structurally and tactically. First, do not use forward pressure to over power your opponent, instead use forward intent. Use your mind to guide your intent and your sensitivity to guide your actions. Seek the center but don’t try to control it physically by force. If your opponent wants to control the center, let him. Let him believe he is in control when in fact he’s not. He can only win if you fight with him. When he strikes at that moment you can hit him or retake the center. Also, when the opponent makes a mistake, capture the center but don’t force it. Allow him to make the mistake. This way it will avoid this force on force power struggle which you’re trying not to do. Structurally, one must relax all the joints in the body, especially the shoulder. Do not lock any joints weather for the use of structure or power generation. Every part must be moving and flowing. Like water running down stream, when it hits an obstruction it simply flows around it. It does not force itself on the rock but yields to it. Use this as a guideline to improve on your chi sao. |
Solid and powerful post!!
That center line, imho, is moving constantly, and with that, to give and to take help control that center line. Also, imho, an over emphasis on the center line can be blinding to students. That center line is important, not to be mistaken, however, that center line is not the end of all things; just one element amongst many others.
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well said...glad you like the article...I actually wrote it 3 years ago and forgot about then came across it
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/sifumcilwrath
"When the student is ready the master will appear" |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Chi Sao? What does it mean? Is there an English equivalent term for Chi Sao? Same goes for yin/yang and 5 elements? |
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stonecrusher69
Red Belt
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 807
Location: New Jersey
Styles: MCM WING CHUN
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| Chi Sao? What does it mean? Is there an English equivalent term for Chi Sao? Same goes for yin/yang and 5 elements? |
Chi sao means sticking hands. To stick to the hands or bridges of two opponent. The other terms you can google them... there is so much written about them.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/sifumcilwrath
"When the student is ready the master will appear" |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Nice article, thanks for sharing it. It seems like many times someone can get caught up in Chi Sao just to do Chi Sao, as opposed to working towards a solution to the problem in front of you. Like trapping in other styles. Many times, some can get caught up in trapping for the sake of trapping, instead of using at as another tool to work towards the solution.
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www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Solid Post! Well done!
Chi Sao is about garhering information and controlling the opponent by sensing their intent. Propreceptive training can give a Wing Chun fighter in some circumstances an added advantage. When a Wing Chun fighter fight's another Wing Chun fighter they rarely make any Chi Sao types of contact. |
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