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Traymond
Pre-Black Belt
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Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 997
Location: Michigan
Styles: Sensei of Brasshand Style, but practicioner of many

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm I think so. I heard that one before...I believe it was on Asida Kims website...he has alot of good Koans their.

Just type in your browser Ashida Kim Koans and his site usually pops up on Firefox atleast.

But I enjoy reading them I frequently pass them out to my most knowledgeable students.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27854
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know that I would try to spread Zen to other Christians, especially in the church. Most won't understand it completely (like me) and will put up a brick wall to you. On the other hand, when they do question you about it, you should be able to give astute answers that help to clear the mud for them.
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Traymond
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 997
Location: Michigan
Styles: Sensei of Brasshand Style, but practicioner of many

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they were to put a brick wall to me it would make no difference, I have no other interactions with them anyways, other than my girlfriend is half of their kids elementary teacher and they all love her, haha.

But I will do it subtly at first do it to the ones that I have known a bit longer. Now that I think of it I teach one of them in my Shinchuurou Te...hmmm i will probably start there...Im sure god will let things unfold.

And for them to understand Zen truly...is not needed..most of them don't even understand Christianity...
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Daisho
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Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 180
Location: NJ
Styles: BJJ, MMA, Judo

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with bushido on making sure to be very skillful in speaking about zen, when you first approach them.

Out of the various practitioners that come into our zendo, Christians are very rare. I've been on sesshin with Muslims, Hindus, and Jews quite often, but its only the theologically educated Christians that wind up dropping by.

The most important thing to stress to a Christian audience, is that zazen is the only part of zen that matters. And zazen is nothing more than sitting still, and keeping the mind as clear as possible for as long as possible.

We do this to experience the universe in the purest way. We sit still and attempt to do nothing more than just exist. This way we are on the exact same state of being as not only humans, but the rock, a planet, the air, empty space, the tree, etc. They may come to understand it as experiencing God's work in a way of absolute appreciation and love.

For that brief period they are stopping their inner narrative, and shutting out the self-centeredness that comes with daily life, and devoting themselves to remembering that God has created many wonderful things, and that attempting to identify with this universe, is attempting to identify with God's own works, and therefore with God him/herself.
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Traymond
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Joined: 26 Nov 2008
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Styles: Sensei of Brasshand Style, but practicioner of many

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm I will be careful...I spose we don't want to end up having a church become a confrontational war front...
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Daisho
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Joined: 30 Sep 2007
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Location: NJ
Styles: BJJ, MMA, Judo

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHen you feel prepared to bring this to your congregation, you may want to email the priest from Morning Star Zendo and see how he implemented it in his church/college.

Jesuit priests are among the most fanatical defenders of the Catholic religion that exists. They're all highly educated and highly motivated, and would not bring anything into their worship that they felt was anti-Christ. Remember these are the guys that headed up the Spanish Inquisition

They're also the Catholic faction that promotes the idea of developing the mind and the body as well as possible. They run some of the top Catholic institutions in the world, and considering they were started by SPanish military officers, they take physical conditioning pretty seriously when a new clergyman comes aboard. Here is a link to their site: http://kennedyzen.tripod.com/
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Traymond
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Joined: 26 Nov 2008
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Location: Michigan
Styles: Sensei of Brasshand Style, but practicioner of many

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm I will do that, and I will probably email him to get some info on how to do i as well. Thanks again.

BIG Help haha.
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JohnC
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Joined: 17 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Three books you might find interesting:

Zen Catholicism by Dom Aelred Graham

Jesus & Buddha, The Parallel Sayings editted by Marcus Borg.

Zen Spirit, Christian Spirit, The Place of Zen in Christian Life by Robert E. Kennedy
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Daisho
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Joined: 30 Sep 2007
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Location: NJ
Styles: BJJ, MMA, Judo

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
Three books you might find interesting:

Zen Catholicism by Dom Aelred Graham

Jesus & Buddha, The Parallel Sayings editted by Marcus Borg.

Zen Spirit, Christian Spirit, The Place of Zen in Christian Life by Robert E. Kennedy


That last book Zen Spirit, Christian Spirit... is written by the Father Kennedy of Morning Star Zendo which I listed the website for above. it's only a few blocks from my house.

This topic has me considering taking a trip over to the college and meeting him myself.
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Scott_LIFE180
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Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 43
Location: Joplin Mo
Styles: American Kenpo

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Christian and following Zen? Reply with quote

Traymond wrote:
So as a Christian my church does not believe that I should follow the arts of Zen, but even the Lord says that we should honor all religions, how can we truly honor them without truly understanding them? IO have studies Zen Buddhism, Shinto, Taoism, Daoism, many other types of Christianity, and now my church believes that it is a sin to try to study Zen...

What are your beliefs on Martial artists and using Zen in their arts...whether you are Christian or not I want you input.


Traymond, greetings. I would like to pose a few questions and thoughts to you. The first is, can you quote chapter and verse as to where it says we should honor all religions? Don't get me wrong, I know that we are to love everyone, but honoring their religion does not (at least in my mind without knowing the chapter and verse) seem like something Christ would say, or the apostles.

However, can you learn about Zen philosiphy? Absolutly! If you want to study Zen I would have to ask what your personal definition of study is. Are you learning about Zen in hopes of improving your MA skills? Are you learning it to find truth? Are you just curious about what the Zen philosiphies teach?

Speaking from a strictly Christian world viewpoint, all religions that seek truth, seek Christ. However in error they are. As Christ said "I am the way, the truth and the light. No man comes to the Father except through me." [ emphisis added ] So from a Christian world viewpoint, one could argue that all religions that seek truth have an element of Christianity in them. But here is the thing, you can't get there from here. In other words, you can't get to Truth by any other means, so why study a map that wont take you where you need to go?

If you want to learn about other religions and cultures that is great. However it is important to remember that there is only one way to go.

Now if you don't have a Christian world viewpoint, then the above is moot, but Christian to Christian it is quite valid.
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