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Gratia
White Belt
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Philippines
Styles: Shorin Ryu

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may sound absurd to you guys but I'm quoting this from one anime(Naruto), "When two fighters/ninja/etc collide, they will learn their opponents will and thus know how to respond"(not the exact words). I'm still a beginner but getting hit by someone(specially bullies), I would assume that martial artists who have understood their art even slightly, would know why they were hit. And thus, knowing why they were hit would understand the assaulter. Turning the other cheek is a gesture that will depend on its effect. If you are turning the other cheek because of humility, it's good, no doubt about that, but what about your assaulter? Is is safe to say that martial artist should not just humble themselves by turning the other cheek, but to take action not just for themselves but for the benefit of the assaulter as well?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow...great questions, alas, great topic, thank you for starting it.

I believe that these answers will vary from one practitioner to another. Some answers might surprise you, while others might not. I believe that the answer isn't determined because I'm either a MAist or not. Being a MAist surely, imho, doesn't make the MAist more capable of deciding what's a proper response.

For me, turning the cheek for both parties doesn't exist. Why? "I" doesn't exist! One must defend oneself no matter what the ethos might or might exist within either of combatants. What exists, imho, is that an attack has occurred and if an attack has occurred, then ones a defender while the other is the attacker.

Thin lines exist everywhere in everything; to do or not to do, and what follows that is how to and how not to do while being in concert with what to do and what not to do. Thin lines get blurred quite quick by how one perceives occurrences that are unfolding right before their eyes.

If I turn my cheek, my attacker might or might not perceive that I'm weak/frail/uncertain/etc. Whereas in truth, I'm the farthest thing from that because I'm complete in my totality.

For Christians, of which I am one, I don't believe that Jesus would want me to just stand there and take a beating, nor would He want me to beat the tar out of my attacker. I believe that Jesus would want me to do whatever is necessary and nothing more! I'll do what I feel that I must do, and in that, I'll let the courts decide the legal ramifications of whether I should've turned my cheek or not.




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Gratia
White Belt
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Philippines
Styles: Shorin Ryu

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You got it right Senpai.. I have always been 'teased' or 'provoked' for countless of times even back when I wasn't a practitioner. Before, I have bullied/beat my provokers in my mind. Not that I'm training, even the thought of it scares me(it needs a thought to make an action).

How about you Senpai? Have you ever been scared of what you have or developed?

And, so happy to hear! I'm a Christian also. ^_^
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gratia wrote:
You got it right Senpai.. I have always been 'teased' or 'provoked' for countless of times even back when I wasn't a practitioner. Before, I have bullied/beat my provokers in my mind. Not that I'm training, even the thought of it scares me(it needs a thought to make an action).

How about you Senpai? Have you ever been scared of what you have or developed?

And, so happy to hear! I'm a Christian also. ^_^

Solid post!!

To the bold type above...

I suppose I was when I was an immature martial artist, but that was eons and eons ago. Now, no, I'm not afraid at all; I'm comforted in my MA totality!!



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Gratia
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Philippines
Styles: Shorin Ryu

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But have you had any 'brink' of losing control along the way?
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gratia wrote:
But have you had any 'brink' of losing control along the way?

No, I haven't!!



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parkison
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice post
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vantheman
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Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Posts: 249

Styles: Chinese Kempo Karate, Brazilian Jujitsu

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprisingly, this issue has come up and largely been settled in the 2000 years of Christianity's existence.

So I have taken Catholic Morality classes on self defense and the like, and as others have mentioned, compassion and love for the sacredness human life is central. While seeking to harm the life of another is generally seen by the church as immoral, given that humans are seen as stewards of their own lives, they have an inherent right to protect themselves from an unjust aggressor.
The criteria for just self defense (in both objective/Natural Law and Christian Morality) are as follows.

1. Force must be used only when there is an imminent danger (i.e. no killing a fleeing man, no beating an unconscious body, no vigilante justice when just authorities like the police exist)

2. Force must only be used as a last resort against an unjust aggressor

3. Force used must be proportional to the situation (no crippling the guy Master Ken-style because he put a finger of your chest).

I'm not putting this out here to debate the legitimacy of the criteria, ect., I'm simply hoping to help the Christian Martial Artists out there better understand the teachings of the Church regarding self defense. Christians have a responsibility to protect human life, including their own. If it is between your life and the life of an unjust aggressor, the duress of permanent physical injury can modify your culpability of possible immoral acts that may be committed in self defense.
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I've never lost control, and if I ever do, the MA isn't the reason for it.

While my life is the MA; my life isn't the MA. I was raised by wonderful parents, and in that, we had a great family network of support. Take that, plus the life experiences that I've learnt from, and yes, I've made mistakes, but I don't, and won't blame the MA for my lack of control, which I've never lost. I do get upset/angry, but I don't display that because I'm in control; I'm complete in my MA totality.



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Titanium
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Joined: 08 Aug 2015
Posts: 259
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Styles: Wado-Kai & Shotokan

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christians do say turn the other cheek, however they should not be push overs.
Some Christians believe that martial arts is toying with the Devil, however this is nonesense.
With that being said, karate is a way of life and not a sport.
I'm not sure how God would feel about that.
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