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SloMo
Orange Belt
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 175
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Styles: Tae Kwon Do
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 Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:10 am Post subject: Cocky Students |
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How do you deal with cocky students? What do you do if you have a student that is full of themselves and is very skilled?
We have a couple of students like that in our school and we were able to bring them back down to earth but I am curious how some of you deal with it.
Mo |
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miguksaram
Orange Belt
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 143
Location: Aurora
Styles: Korean Martial Arts, Shorei-ryu, others
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Cocky Students |
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| SloMo wrote: |
How do you deal with cocky students? What do you do if you have a student that is full of themselves and is very skilled?
We have a couple of students like that in our school and we were able to bring them back down to earth but I am curious how some of you deal with it.
Mo |
Pit them against someone better in sparring session. If there is no one bettter then the instuctor needs to step up to the task.
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Shorin Ryuu
Black Belt
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 1862
Location: Pearl City, HI
Styles: Shorin Ryu, Ryukyu Kobudo
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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I think that is a good point, but you have to be careful that you are not teaching the wrong lesson. No one ever certainly means to teach this lesson, but I think over-reliance on that technique breeds the idea subconsciously that the instructor, or the better sparring partner was right merely because they were better at technique and better skilled. I understand the need to put people in their place, at times, but more emphasis should be put on character regardless of the skill level (in other words, humility through humiliation isn't always the best technique). We all know that your skill level has nothing to do with your character, so we should be wary of methods that employ skill level as an arbitrator of right and wrong.
And then, like you mentioned, there are times where they simply need to know where they stand. But even in those times, they must understand clearly how their behavior is wrong regardless of whether they won or lost the physical confrontation with the mediating superior.
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RavenX
White Belt
Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Rhode Island
Styles: Sullivan's Kenpo Jiujitsu
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Oh! I can feild this one pretty well actually! There is a girl in our school that is full of herself. Granted, she's goood, but not THE BEST. So, at the end of every class I make sure that I ask all the students to name at least 1 thing they have learned in that class, and something that they need to work on. Now, most cocky people (like her) will say that they can't think of anything. That's when you have to think of something for yourself. Personally I like to recomend to them that they can practice their stances, or shadow boxing, or pushups, something that everyone really does need work on.
This method not only makes them see that they aren't as good as they think they are, it gets the whole class thinking about what they could be doing better on. If that doesn't work, then the sparring idea is the next best thing ^_^
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Shorinryu Sensei
Black Belt
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 2045
Location: Kalispell, Montana
Styles: Shorinryu Matsumura Kenpo (Seito/Orthodox) Karate and Kobudo
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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I think it depends on where the cockiness is stemming from. Are they cocky because they're good...or because they THINK they're good (and not). if I get a mid/upper belt that is being to cocky with lower belts, I will make sure he pairs up with a higher belt by rotating the students o that htey have a different partner. Oh yeah, my classes are belts of all levels from a 3rd Dan to a white belt. If the student is a much higher belt, he pairs off with me. I don't teach him a lesson exactly...but I'll go blow for blow with any of them, and even at my advanced age of 52...I'm still faster, more accurate and generate more power than any of them do so far.
I'm not trying to intimidate them..but rather show them that they aren't the "Cock of the walk" in the dojo...I am, so just chill out until you can take the old guy (that's me). |
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kotegashiNeo
Blue Belt
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 342
Location: Barrie Ontario Canada
Styles: goju/ Aikido
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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I would just relax I think everyone went through a period of cockiness as we began to aquire some real skill. I call it bruce lee fever, you start to think you are the greatest thing since the little dragon. This is an important hill to climb for when you get kicked off it and everyone does and you awake at the bottom, which you do it spawns humilty which is crucial for longevity in the martial arts. Remember it is a big world and there is always someone better, who cares if someone is cocky for the truly skilled are quiet and humble
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SloMo
Orange Belt
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 175
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Styles: Tae Kwon Do
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:37 am Post subject: |
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What brought one of the ones I was talking about was a tournament. Now, this guy is a natural. ( You know, the kind that you wished you were! ) Very flexible, very fast and excellent coordination. He went to compete at a tournament and got waxed pretty badly. ( He did take third place though ). Now if he would have won, it would have been a different story but he didn't. It's probably wrong for an instructor to hope his student loses but I think he learned more from the loss than he would from any first place medal.
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AngelaG
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 865
Location: Devon, UK
Styles: Shotokan
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:03 am Post subject: |
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If I have cocky stsudents I tend to do stuff like let them stay in "Yoi" (Ready stance) for ages. They have to stand, focused ahead without fidgeting until I say they can go. This tends to focus their minds but also lets them know who's boss in a subtle way.
I won't tolerate back chat. That will earn you press ups. If it continues I may use the divide and conquer route and get the whole call to do press ups, so that even their peers are telling them to shut up. Eventually I may tell them to leave the class until they have the right attitude. I made one teenager stand in the corner once. If they want to act like little children I have no qualms about treating them like little children!
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miguksaram
Orange Belt
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 143
Location: Aurora
Styles: Korean Martial Arts, Shorei-ryu, others
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Shorin Ryuu wrote: |
| I think that is a good point, but you have to be careful that you are not teaching the wrong lesson. No one ever certainly means to teach this lesson, but I think over-reliance on that technique breeds the idea subconsciously that the instructor, or the better sparring partner was right merely because they were better at technique and better skilled. |
I see what your are saying but let me extend on my personal experience and try to explain better. I was the cocky kid. My instructor, never scolded me for it, never even mentioned it. Everything was business as usual. The only difference was that we had a senior student, who was back from college, work out with us. At this time, since he stopped practicing for school, I was actually a higher rank, though I still considered him my senior due to the fact he started way before me but was gone just shortly after I joined. During the sparring session he paired us up. My mind set "ppphhhttt....this should be nice to send college boy back home with a spanking". Apparently my instructor already talked to him about the situation. What I didn't know about him was that he was the big guns of the school before I started winning top 2 spots in his sparring divisions as well as did some kickboxing on the side. This guy did everything but rip me a new bung hole. A very humbling experience to say the least.
After all was said and done my instructor gave us a lecture about how we must all remember that no matter how many people we beat, there is always at least 10 other people who can beat us. That we must keep that in mind and treat each person with respect because you never know if that person is the one.
So you see, I would condone telling the cocky student "hey you have an attitude, I'm going to set you up against someone who can whoop you". You would be correct in saying that in doing such a thing would convey the wrong message. You need to do it so the student figures it out for themself. A general lecture afterwards to reinerate the lesson, that you hoped they learned, is also a good thing for the rest of the class.
I definitely agree that all students at one time or another will go through this phase.
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karatekid1975
KF VIP
Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 4588
Location: Upstate NY
Styles: Tang Soo Do/TKD/jujitsu
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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I wasn't going to post about this but here goes.....
I recently went back to my old dojang. I made quick friends with this girl (the only one willing to learn tricks with .... the reason for a quick friendship). I taught her a few, and she taught them to a few other people ..... to make a long story short, she got cocky. She thought she the "stuff" in sparring also. I had others tell me about how she would get cocky with them during sparring, cause she knew she can beat them. She would "knit-pick" at them. In the mean time, I didn't hang with her much for the fact that I don't like cocky people.
So, sparring class was the other night. We were allowed to pick whoever we wanted to spar with. I picked a couple of my sparring pals first (the ones who are not cocky but good, and loads of fun to spar with). I picked her next. A lot of the other girls told me she was good, so I prepared for a challege. I actually beat her .... easily (this was my first time ever sparring her). She got mad, and told the instructor that I kicked her in the head. He asked "did you block?" She said, "no, but that wasn't fair," and claimed that I hurt her. I maybe hurt her pride, but that was it.
Was I wrong for doing that? I mean, she would pick on others who might be the same rank, but less skilled (some younger than her, also). The instructor even gave a lecture about good sportsmanship (cause of her attitude about losing), and he talked about that people will get kicked, even in places that are not legal. "Stuff" happens.
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Laurie F |
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on the post.
